Adam.C.Vokes

Hello.

bit of a random question considering it has nothing really to do with Close Protection, but does anyone know the sia regulations concerning dog handling???

i'm doing a course next week then hopefully going to be working in that field until i see some sign of my SIA CP licence turning up.

if anyone has any ideas i'd really appreciate some info.
again, apologies, i know this isn't really CP related.

Thanks
Adam.

scott66

Hi there
i am an ex ruc northern ireland dog handler and i passed my sia level 3 cp course last year. A year down the line i am still trying to get work as a cp dog handler in the middle east. The answer to you question is there are no regulations with dog handlers and the sia. It should mean you would think you would be more employable in the security industry but its a case of too few jobs and too many looking for them. I hope this helps you

DaemonHund

What course are you doing? and with who? Im just curious, and scott66 is right, there are no regulations from the sia regulating dog handlers, although I believe NASDU is trying to put something together with the SIA to make some sort of regulations in regards to training standards etc... most companies that employ handlers usually run NASDU or BIPDT regulated courses or have some sort of inhouse training, but this is done mostly for the clients and Insurance purposes, also they want to make sure you are a competent handler. What kind of ideas are you looking for?

scott66

I qualified in 1993 with my police dog handling department and once you do this twelve week course its something you have for life. On leaving the police i decided to go into security canine consultancy and a year ago i decided to get my level 3 close protection course so i could combine it with dog handling. Unfortunately the jobs are few and far between but i keep applying to anything worth while but i think i will get something eventually hoping for any work in the middle east working with dogs

DaemonHund

Hi Scott66,
from what I gathered most of the work in the middle east is with detection, mostly explosives. Do you have any qualifications like that?, I too am looking for work over there with dogs and I am trying to get more training and experience with EDD work, if you connect with a training company that does that training they usually can direct you to jobs overseas, but like most of the courses out there ,they can cost a bit.

scott66

Yes it is mostly explosive type but i find there is no difference to the search method for explosives and searching for persons or property its reading your dog and knowing when they are giving you an indication. I do think there will be more security type work for dog handlers to help secure compounds

DaemonHund

I totally aggree with you scott about the search methods, funny you should say that because I was just having that conversation with my training partner in Germany. I was trying to figure out why I was coming up against brick walls when trying talking to companies about doing EDD work, they kept telling me that I need all this training and certificates to do the work, grant it, I do think that being familiar with different types of explosives and reocognition of munitions and detonation devices is important for obvious reasons, but that is not really "dog training" that is just training. I think it has something more to do about politics and "buying into the game".

johng990

Trust me, looking for explosives in Hostile environment is very different to searching for anything else. I agree about the ability to read a dog etc but the awareness that you need when working in these environments is totally different. I have done drug detection work as well as explosive and at the end of the day, although the procedures are similar the work itself is very different, as is the procedures on an indication. The scope for disaster is alot bigger too, whats the worst that a kilo of cocaine can do when your dog indicates compared to a kilo of HME.?? Trust me you don't want to be stood too close to that. Also the companies that employ you will be paying a lot of money for your services, hence the reason they want you to have all the certificates, It proves to the client that you are at least to a standard to do the job otherwise everyone would be doing it. As for course's to train you to do the job, like everything there are good and bad but I am always dubious when a handler arrives having done a three week course, It takes 16 weeks to do the British Army Arms/ Explosive Course so how can they do it so much quicker.?? If you have the right attitude, i.e the course gets you to a level but afterwards you learn the job, you'll be fine but too many handlers arrive thinking they know everything and trust me, you never ever do.!!! I have been handling for over 13 years and everyday something new comes up.
With regards to patrol dogs securing compounds I think most of the companies over here employ TCN's to do it as they are so much cheaper. It's a nightmare getting your foot in the door over here now, especially in the dog world. If I can be of any help PM me and I'll help in anyway I can.

scott66

just got your reply i would like to have a chat later when i have more time and i agree totally with your assesment. its nice to have some excellent feedback from someone with the experience of the middle east and if you ever worked in n ireland during the troubles im sure their are many comparisons with what you are doing over there. if you could point me in the right direction that would be great. thanks

DaemonHund

Hi John, you alright?
I sent u my email in a PM. I have been talking to our mutual acquaintance, I will be staying in contact with them and look forward to doing some "dog stuff" with 'em.
I didnt mean to come across as saying that someone should go into EDD without being certified or untrained, on the contrary. I was just saying that the training and certification has more to do with procedures and safe handling drills related to the finding of the explosives. It may very well also invlolve training the handler to teach him to work with the dog and teach him to read the dog and watch for signs of scent recognition....etc, and teach about how scent works ie: weather conditions, air currents...etc. But if one has experience in, say like myself, in Mantracking on all types of terrain and scenarios ( I wont say where I learned because its not relevant in an open forum) isnt that half the battle? a far as the training goes?