Hostile Environment deployment
Posted 26-06-2009 at 10:18 AM by The National Security College
Ok, I wanted to give a few worldy wise words of advice to those members looking to deploy to the Middle East, into a HECPO/PSD role. Hopefully no-one will take offence or start bitching about one thing or another..... These words are from 5 years of training people for deployment and since 1997 working on the curcuit, before which military deployments etc etc, from at least 5 different people, with RMP, Infantry, Royal Marine, SAS experience. I'm talking about Iraq and Afghanistan, Open Carry contracts, with individual and light support weapons.
(1) Civilian: those with no military/police background hoping to deploy, chances are slim to nil, it just doesn't happen often, unless you have been on the curcuit for a long long time and know the right people and have proved yourself amongst them. Would suggest you DO NEED a HECPO course and Live Fire weapons course, but please, don't hold your breath, join 21/23 or RMR/Para TA and spend a few years learning your trade, then try!
(2) Police: Former officers even MOD PLOD with weapons experience, still a hard one, as carriage and deployment of weapons within the UK is very different to Hostile Environments, however, we've had a few through us and they've deployed, but only because they showed a unique attitude outwith their normal "police" mindset.
(3) Military: ok, here's the hard one, think I'll split it down further:
(a) Just de-mobbing, had a few deployments since the kick off of 2004, more likely from an infantry background (let's be honest here if you're from the SF Group, you aint gonna be needing much help, Badge Club and all) so..... you're possible teeth arms and rareing to earn some decent money, be honest and ask yourself what do you really know about CP.... carrying a weapon for HM and doing a sterling job for Lizzie is very different, there's no support, no 9 mile snipers, no fast air to support you and your main role is to RUN the F*CK away and keep your principal safe; recommendation, do a basic CP course, a HECPO course and Live Fire, cos your "issued gat" on PMC street, will not be an SA80..... it's a 553, M4, possible AK etc etc so learn them inside out, learn the drills, the skills and know what is more likely to happen on the first contact, rather than find your feet once "on the job" more likely, if the contracting company knows it's stuff, they'd reccomend you do one anyway!
Also, whilst on the subject, softer skills such as mechanic, scaley (rad-op), armourer, medic are all good transferable skills
(b) Been out a while, say 2-3+ years, as above and don't kid yourself on that you're still a fit guy, unless you run the Fan every weekend with 50kg bergan, you need to build your stamina and endurance back up, the kit out there is friggin heavy especially in the hot times and sitting about waiting for sh1t to happen is boring and you need physical fitness/stamina to deal with it. Do a basic CP course, a HECPO course and Live Fire
(c) Already TA? Well, let's be honest, unless you have been attached or deployed to Iraq/Afghanistan most companies will still look at you as a "civvy wearing DPM"..... it's an age old problem, the STAB mentality from the egos that are, Bless them, our F/T professional soldiers, however again, your choice of TA unit can make all the difference, with the usual suspects being better, 21/23, RMR, Para etc etc
(d) Still F/T soldier? Stay where you are...... if you're looking at leaving to join in this merry-go-round we call the curcuit, think carefully, most work/contracts are passed amongst people that work together, or have done, a lot of the contractors will not take you on, because MOD don't like their trained for "£BIG MONEY" soldiers leaving and have in the past, put slight under the table pressure on folk trying to gain this £BIG MONEY" training into the corporate world, unless you're adamant you're getting out, in which case, refer to my paragraph (3)
Now, my reason for this thread was simple, I got a call less than an hour ago, from a good friend who told me one of his clients (student) was informed by a very well known training provider, that they did not need a HECPO/PSD course to deploy with Aegis, the student is doing the basic SIA CP course with said provider........... now, the funny thing is, that said provider does not actually conduct HECPO/PSD courses...... so just maybe that was the reason why they suggested the student did not need one, my thoughts were simple, if you were a household plumber, would you take on installing pipes in a Nuclear Reactor??? after all "pipes are pipes" aren't they????
Technically they are correct, Aegis run a in-country package when you hit Victory, where you can spend a few weeks waiting on paperwork, ID's etc it's a good package and will test your physical abilities, your weapon handling, your weapon accuracy, but being brutal and honest, without a HECPO/PSD course and live fire, your initial call/email/letter to Aegis for an interview, will probably go to the end of the long list for people waiting to deploy, many of which, have already deployed with Aegis, or another company.... what helps? Showing you have the atitude to learn new skills and drills and investing in said skills to better yourself and prove your worth to them!
My friend and I discussed this for a while, coming to the conclusion the provider was not giving what we call "best advice" to the student or in the words of my learned friend "they're f*cking knobends"
If this wee thread helps anyone with their ultimate goal of deploying to a hostile environment without really thinking hard first, then it was worth the 10 minutes writing it, there's no worse place to find out you bit off more than your ego can chew than in the middle of a contact, in Iraq/Afghanistan where your ego could cost you your life, or the lives of others!
Andy
(1) Civilian: those with no military/police background hoping to deploy, chances are slim to nil, it just doesn't happen often, unless you have been on the curcuit for a long long time and know the right people and have proved yourself amongst them. Would suggest you DO NEED a HECPO course and Live Fire weapons course, but please, don't hold your breath, join 21/23 or RMR/Para TA and spend a few years learning your trade, then try!
(2) Police: Former officers even MOD PLOD with weapons experience, still a hard one, as carriage and deployment of weapons within the UK is very different to Hostile Environments, however, we've had a few through us and they've deployed, but only because they showed a unique attitude outwith their normal "police" mindset.
(3) Military: ok, here's the hard one, think I'll split it down further:
(a) Just de-mobbing, had a few deployments since the kick off of 2004, more likely from an infantry background (let's be honest here if you're from the SF Group, you aint gonna be needing much help, Badge Club and all) so..... you're possible teeth arms and rareing to earn some decent money, be honest and ask yourself what do you really know about CP.... carrying a weapon for HM and doing a sterling job for Lizzie is very different, there's no support, no 9 mile snipers, no fast air to support you and your main role is to RUN the F*CK away and keep your principal safe; recommendation, do a basic CP course, a HECPO course and Live Fire, cos your "issued gat" on PMC street, will not be an SA80..... it's a 553, M4, possible AK etc etc so learn them inside out, learn the drills, the skills and know what is more likely to happen on the first contact, rather than find your feet once "on the job" more likely, if the contracting company knows it's stuff, they'd reccomend you do one anyway!
Also, whilst on the subject, softer skills such as mechanic, scaley (rad-op), armourer, medic are all good transferable skills
(b) Been out a while, say 2-3+ years, as above and don't kid yourself on that you're still a fit guy, unless you run the Fan every weekend with 50kg bergan, you need to build your stamina and endurance back up, the kit out there is friggin heavy especially in the hot times and sitting about waiting for sh1t to happen is boring and you need physical fitness/stamina to deal with it. Do a basic CP course, a HECPO course and Live Fire
(c) Already TA? Well, let's be honest, unless you have been attached or deployed to Iraq/Afghanistan most companies will still look at you as a "civvy wearing DPM"..... it's an age old problem, the STAB mentality from the egos that are, Bless them, our F/T professional soldiers, however again, your choice of TA unit can make all the difference, with the usual suspects being better, 21/23, RMR, Para etc etc
(d) Still F/T soldier? Stay where you are...... if you're looking at leaving to join in this merry-go-round we call the curcuit, think carefully, most work/contracts are passed amongst people that work together, or have done, a lot of the contractors will not take you on, because MOD don't like their trained for "£BIG MONEY" soldiers leaving and have in the past, put slight under the table pressure on folk trying to gain this £BIG MONEY" training into the corporate world, unless you're adamant you're getting out, in which case, refer to my paragraph (3)
Now, my reason for this thread was simple, I got a call less than an hour ago, from a good friend who told me one of his clients (student) was informed by a very well known training provider, that they did not need a HECPO/PSD course to deploy with Aegis, the student is doing the basic SIA CP course with said provider........... now, the funny thing is, that said provider does not actually conduct HECPO/PSD courses...... so just maybe that was the reason why they suggested the student did not need one, my thoughts were simple, if you were a household plumber, would you take on installing pipes in a Nuclear Reactor??? after all "pipes are pipes" aren't they????
Technically they are correct, Aegis run a in-country package when you hit Victory, where you can spend a few weeks waiting on paperwork, ID's etc it's a good package and will test your physical abilities, your weapon handling, your weapon accuracy, but being brutal and honest, without a HECPO/PSD course and live fire, your initial call/email/letter to Aegis for an interview, will probably go to the end of the long list for people waiting to deploy, many of which, have already deployed with Aegis, or another company.... what helps? Showing you have the atitude to learn new skills and drills and investing in said skills to better yourself and prove your worth to them!
My friend and I discussed this for a while, coming to the conclusion the provider was not giving what we call "best advice" to the student or in the words of my learned friend "they're f*cking knobends"

If this wee thread helps anyone with their ultimate goal of deploying to a hostile environment without really thinking hard first, then it was worth the 10 minutes writing it, there's no worse place to find out you bit off more than your ego can chew than in the middle of a contact, in Iraq/Afghanistan where your ego could cost you your life, or the lives of others!

Andy
Total Comments 7
Comments
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Could you recommend a company who are worth training with as i am a soldier determined to get out and carry out HECP work. Many thanksPosted 19-07-2009 at 11:58 AM by Eddy-B
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Posted 17-09-2009 at 01:20 PM by mrhogan
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Posted 17-09-2009 at 04:20 PM by Daz080970
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Good and honest.Posted 27-09-2009 at 12:11 PM by chevymilan
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thanks for this post.Posted 29-10-2009 at 05:46 PM by tomle
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Fantastic post - many thanks. A post on the whole 'own company sub contracting for another/work for established company as direct employee would be very useful if anyone feels that they have experience of this on the circuit. Many thanks again. Toby - TGP LtdPosted 10-11-2009 at 11:08 PM by tobysmart.tgp
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Posted 09-02-2010 at 08:29 PM by VinceCurrie



















