Response to threat

[Lietuvis]

when it comes to tiger kidnaps... you cant really do anything..
As mostly bank manager or other senior personel actually opens and gives away money,but you can understand him...

What goes for cash in transit? Dont you get armed police escort? If security is unarmed...

Anyways, you could always check how frequently attacks are done in what areas? Are they done in the same area? Same strategy used? Same way , same people/number of people etc...
What guidlines you have?
I know in moscow there was strict rule some time ago (in some company's)
in case of attack on cash-in-transit van , open fire. Or if cash-in-transit van is enclosed (Doors closed) Drive away - ussually there are extremely small windows that allow to open fire on attackers. And in case of attack there are mobile units dispatched each unit consists of 2 heavily armed mainly x-army officers, unit arrives in approximately 2-5minutes,depends on location / time of day etc...
So small chances you will be able to rob one without inside man or something like that.

From above,if the attacks are done in same area, wouldnt it be good idea to get extra escort to the van or lets say Surveillance team on it?

Wouldn't it be a good idea to check every officers ho works with cash family members , theyr family members / friends etc..
They may have some link with oprganised crime etc.
Ofthen thats the case..

[kensplace]

Why not fit a smokecloak in the bank or van?

If a door is 'forced' open, then it goes off, and no one would be able to see anything, much less continue with the robbery. Disorientation would be sudden and swift...

[mts]

Interesting thread and no magical answer.

To assist though, i would say, what is your responsibility? Is the Cash in Transit responsibility to "save" the cash at any cost or to follow procedure and minimize the risk to the van during transit? If working at the bank, is you role to protect lives of staff and customers or protect the cash?

Once these 2 points above are answered internally within your organzitaion, that will help give you a guidline as to your reaction.
There was an incident here last year where bank robbers burst into a bank and demanded cash, the security guard was watching but did not react, there was no violence, no direct or imminent threat to life and the robbers left. The guard was commended on refraining as by reacting he would have escalated the situation to a level that he could not control.

IMO, it all boils down to lives at risk. If you're at risk, react to neautralize the threat, using force if neccessary. If it's only property/cash, do what you can to prevent an atatck, but once it happens you need to assess if in fact your or your teammates are in danger. It's only money and companies are insured against theft; hence you are working as a requirement of the insurance policy.

As far as prevention goes, you need to understand how they know you will be where you are for the attack. Are you driving the same routes at the same times? Is there a dummy vehicle? They are watching you to see your times and routes, this is where you need to focus. Deny them that info they cannot attack your van. Routine is the enemy here and you must change it, become unpredictable as much as your conditions will allow.

Regarding reaction to an attack; if your life or well being is in danger, react with one degree more force than the attacker (check on local law if this is allowed). When you react, be swift and neutralize the threat as quickly as possible.

Once the cowards see a "hard" defense, they will select another van , another team, another company to hit. They always look for the easiest target.




Hope that helps somewhat.

m

[ACT]

Thanks to all.

Cheers guys for all the input into this topic. I'm back to work on Monday. Will take your ideas with me.

Once again thanks a lot, if anyone still has any ideas I'd still like to hear them.

STAY SAFE

ACT

[VICTORMACE]

With the frequency of cash in transit vans being robbed so often, and there are gangs who just concentrate on robbing just this particular method of moving cash, maybe its about time the government had a rethink about the kind of measures needed to protect firstly the vans crews and secondly the cash. The crinimal will always up the anti to get what they want and when you see a heavy increase in the use of firarms by criminals the government has to act. Maybe its time for government trained, government regulated armed escorts payed for by the security companies. Most if not all American cash in transit vans have armed guards and a lot of European countries also have armed escorts so why not the UK. If it was controlled and regulated by the government what would be the problem. Some might argue if the guards carry guns so the thieves will carry guns but sure its going that way anyway with the abundance of guns on the street and its probably only a matter of time till a couple of cash in transit guards are seriously hurt or worse, just my opinion I invite comment.

[Walks99]

In answer to the question what is the priority..........put a price on a human!

When I was working CVIT it was a question if someone asks for it, give it to them! It's not my money and I'll still have a job if a couple of grand goes to the robbers! I'll have a lot less if I put up a fight and the robbers will still get the money. It's a no win situation for the blokes on the vans, the company can only minimise the risk, they can't get rid of it completley. That is one reason I left the job as the company put the blokes under so much pressure with extra work, corners were cut, procedures not followed and the eventuallity was a number of hits in as many months.

I got a telling off every day for missing jobs but I know that if I did them all by the book and with the correct procedures it would take me a lot longer than my driving hours would allow. I'll put in the hours but 14-15 on a CVIT is taking the P**s. Didn't even get overtime!

[jmaccauley]

The universal solution to these problems has always been target hardening. Weapons and body armor are fine, where allowed, but what makes attacking you harder than attacking someone else? Those are the things that need to be addressed. Criminals not only are lazy, but they want to reduce their risk of capture also. If you take all of the aforementioned security considerations (route changing, unpredictable timimg, alert manpower, etc.) Anyone doing a proper Surveillance on you will probably pick an easier target.

Jerry

[Walks99]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmaccauley If you take all of the aforementioned security considerations (route changing, unpredictable timimg, alert manpower, etc.) Anyone doing a proper Surveillance on you will probably pick an easier target. Jerry

Very true mate however putting these things into practice is nigh on impossible for a big CVIT company. It's very sad to say but the job of a CVIT custodian or driver is never taken seriously enough to get the brains onboard to put this into action. You shuld have seen the some of the guys I was working with, god only knows how they got the licence and how they even got through an interview.

The companies pay peanuts, many are run by unions and the result is some very undermotivated old timers or people taking the job becasue they think they have no other options.

[PabloGonzales]

I been working transport escort years back and, to be honest I was feeling very comfortable with my AK47 in my hand. now, in EU, the bad guys have got guns-the good guys have got sia badges. is it fair?

[Walks99]

Four guilty over armed bank raids

Mark Nunes threatens security guard Michael Player with a gun


Four men have been convicted over a series of armed robberies across southern England, which ended when police shot dead two gang members.
The defendants, from London, conspired to organise or execute up to 21 robberies on banks or cash box delivery guards, netting £500,000.
Their 18-month campaign ended when the gang leaders were shot dead by armed officers outside a bank in Hampshire.
The men, who denied involvement, will be sentenced later.
Terence Wallace, 26, of Raynes Park, Adrian Johnson, 28, from Streatham Hill, Leroy Wilkinson, 29, from Streatham and and Victor Iniodu, 34, from Tooting, all denied conspiracy to rob between April 2006 and September 2007.
A jury at Kingston Crown Court, London, found them guilty after four days of deliberation. Clockwise from top left Johnson, Wilkinson, Iniodu and Wallace


The court heard how the gang's activities were eventually stopped when gang leader Mark Nunes was killed when he was shot as he held a gun to a security guard's head.
During the trial, the prosecution said mobile phone records of the gang members placed them at the scene of a series of bank raids, exactly one week before the crimes, or during the crimes themselves.
The prosecution also said the phone records showed defendants had all been in contact with Mr Nunes.
He died after he was shot outside the HSBC branch in Chandler's Ford.
A second man, Andrew Markland, 36, was also shot and killed during the raid. Mark Nunes (l) and Andrew Markland were shot dead by police


A total of 21 banks were targeted by the gang in Gloucester, Swindon, Bristol, Bath, Colchester, Tilehurst in Berkshire, Cherry Hinton near Cambridge, Oxford, Croydon, Ipswich and Chandler's Ford.
Prior to the start of the trial, three men - Leroy Hall, Leon McKenzie and Brian Henry - pleaded guilty to being part of the gang.
After the trial the Independent Police Complaints Commission said it would not prosecute the Flying Squad firearms officers over the deaths.
Det Insp Terry Wilson, from the Metropolitan Police Service's Flying Squad, said: "Today's verdicts demonstrate the ability of the Flying Squad to convict those responsible for armed robberies through professional investigations.
"The results do not though overshadow the fact that during the commission of one offence two men were fatally shot by police officers.
"The death of any person as a result of police action is deeply regrettable." "The fact we exist, along with today's convictions, should serve as a warning to all those who would consider committing such an offence. "The fact that majority of the offences have taken place outside of London did not limit our ability to investigate."