s.i.a licence

James Mc

Hello all,

Jerry we are the same as the lads at Morrigans, in that we don't do CRB checks prior to loading people on to courses.

We do however be frank with them & ask if they have a criminal record as it may prevent them obtaining a license to practice within the industry, we direct them to the sia website & the list of offences that are listed there in.

As for the training providers responsibility to students, i think that by being frank & honest with them it is a much as we can do, even if we did do a CRB check prior to the course, the SIA would do another prior to issuing the license.

James Mc

annie

I always tried to encourage potential students to look very carefully at the sia website and ensure they met all the necessary criteria for a licence. It is a bit of a delicate question to ask outright possibly if they have a criminal conviction, but in the long run a few minutes feeling a little uncomfortable is way better than getting upset when 12 weeks after your course you are suddenly told that you have been declined because of your CRB.

Every potential student should at the very least have the good sense to read through the licencing requirements prior to booking a course, and paying for it, and you know yourself, well beforehand if you have any convictions that are listed and likely to stop you gaining the licence.

I do feel for people refused after paying out so much money but in reality they only have themselves to blame i'm afraid.

Scab

A few do, on the application I developed; it has tick boxes about understanding the Rehabilitation of Offenders relative to the PSIA2001 and that the person understands that if hey have convictions they need to ensure to the best extent that can that they are not going to be refused following a successful course outcome.

You'd be surprised how many students don't come back.

jmaccauley

These are interesting responses to my question. Without being critical of any company or their vetting policies, my question now is, why not? The cost factor shouldn't be that prohibitive and of course a simple CRB is relatively inexpensive. It would have to be passed on to the students. The benefits to the company of this is to screen out the problem students who may use this training for ill purposes, or worse, to get their certificate and hang out their school shingle the next day. We've all seen that happen and it only waters down the industry. It's hard enough to stay professional in this field without some clown running his program down the street at discount rates.

Secondly, is it possible to save time with the sia by having the programs pre-approved? During the class, students can complete the necessary paperwork and even take the required written tests, show the necessary skill sets, etc.. It would be a marketing plus for the traininig firm.

Just wondering how things are done in other areas.

Jerry

morrigan

jmaccauley


You are right of course......... we will take that on board!! Although our sia CP courses are currently run by a partner company.... so it will of course require their agreement

morrigan

littlewoman

I think it would be good if there was some sort of vetting for CP courses, having said that I would be more concerned about people with affiliations to illegal political groups rather than someone who has one conviction for assault. It would be hard to vet someone to check that they're not part of a dodgy political group.


Back to the problem of being refused a license. Whilst the checker on the sia website gives an indication there are situations where it can't give you a definite answer. If you have one or two minor convictions within the time frame but no other convictions, good work record etc. Then you may initially be refused but if you supply references you could get it on appeal. Also if you have convictions that fall just outside the time frame but have a lot of them then you might also be refused, and would have to supply evidence that you had changed significantly as a person.
There is also the problem of overseas offences or what evidence you need to provide of lack of offences. With some countries its clear, with others its not.

In either of these situations you have to go through the whole licensing process before you will get a definate answer. The SIA will not give you an answer ahead of an actual application.
However, there is a sort of get-around for the problem. It is not guaranteed! You can apply for a non-front line license. This means you have to pay the £245 but will not have to pay course fees. The criteria are supposed to be the same as for the front line licenses and there is not supposed to be any difference in criteria for the different sectors. So if you can get a non-front line license, even if you have to appeal and provide references etc. then you should be reasonably sure that you would be able to get a front line license. You will have to pay half the license fee to get your front line license and you will still lose £245 if you can't get the non-front line license. But it may be preferable to paying for a course (particularly for the CP course).
This method is not guaranteed. The sia are going to look pretty silly if they grant you a non-front line license and then refuse a front line one a couple of months later. However there have been cases where someone has been granted a license first time around and then been refused one on renewal (for the same offences which are now even older) or people getting a license for one sector and then being refused one for another. The one case I'm most familiar with was granted on appeal, after supplying character witnesses including the local police and the council (whose buildings the person was protecting).

Scab

Vetting is a good point, but its easy to arrange for the right people to print up some letterheads or be on the other end of the phone when someones going to call to ask some questions.

Much the same as a CRB check, it only works if the person has been caught.

The exception to that is a deeper level of vetting; not so much dv but anything is better than just references or a few confirmatory calls; but then it starts costing more time & money...

James Mc

If training providers start vetting people prior to allowing them a place on their course they could be opening themselves up for a massive legal action. If you take into account all the acts such as Equal Ops, Race Rel, Rehab of Young Offenders there are alot of pitfalls awaiting the company who says no.

As for carrying out CRB checks, one thing that must be taken into account is that the sia will want to do another check after the student has passed the course, their reason for this is that the student may have commited an offence between the initial CRB check & the completion of the course.

I for one will stick to warning people about the CRB & allowing them to do it for themselves, when it comes down to it, if they cant even find out information about themselves, do we really want them working as CPO's???

James Mc

jmaccauley

James
I'm not sure that legal repercussions from turning away a student who has a questionable background is worse than the liability of teaching some security specific techniques and procedures. I know in this country, since private training is not regulated, the schools can turn down anyone they wish. I personally would not want some criminal (former or future)to have picked up any new ideas from me. I have been in training classes where a student was asked to leave prior to the end of training because they appeared to be more concerned with how to do damage than they were with preventing harm to our clients. A more thorough background check might have raised some red flags, but then again, it might not have. I might lose a paying student, but my reputation is much more valuable.

I guess the biggest difference is public and private training facilities. If I had a government contract, I would have to follow their guidelines.

Jerry

DeanoNev

Do you have to have a completely clean record or just no major things ie GBH ABH ??