Unarmed Self Defence

[Offgrid]

One thing that consearns me in regard to CP training courses is this area of the training.
I have seen some courses that advertise training from martial arts instructors.
This worries me as one the course is expensive and two a huge amount of martial art training is totally ineffective in a real scenario.
I think anyone who has worked the doors for a few months or more will agree.
Geoff Thompson has also pretty much proven this important factor too.

I would be most unhappy if I found myself on an £1800 course being taught knife self defence for example by someone from a traditional martial arts background who I could demonstrate was teaching ineffective unrealistic self defence.

On this note are there any regulations within the CP industry ensuring instructors are at least recognised by the self defence federation and, would I have any grounds for a refund if I could support my position if I felt the techniques being taught were best left in the dojo?

Sorry if I come across funnily but as mention in another thread the CP industry seems to have a lot Maddona and Black Shades outfits popping up offering training.

I'm looking for reputable training from real professionals.

Thank you for your time.

[praetorian550]

Contact a guy called Al Cain
he is well known to many on the London Circuit and as well as being a very experienced operator he runs seminars and training for various international units and organisations.
He runs courses under the 'defendo' banner and has a course running soon in London with the former RSM of the canadian JTF2 Bill Woolfe.

Hes the man to talk to in that regard

contact him via his email (I have checked with him so its PERSEC issue free)
please put praetorian550 in the message box is his only request.

alan2165@hotmail.com

j

[Heno]

I went out to Israel and trained in KM and found it to be effective, although I only train now using the most basic moves from it as that's all I'll remember when there's trouble.

I did kickboxing for many years when I was younger and found out that it's not the most effective way of defending yourself when you've been malleted from behind and you're face down on the ground getting filled in by more than one opponent.

I've done doors for years and I agree that traditional martial arts are found to be wanting when the excrement comes into direct contact with the rotating air conditioning device.

A lot of traditional martial arts practice with opponents starting face to face, at a nice arms length or the classic: "Ok, a guy comes up and grabs your wrist......" come on, has there been an out break of wrist grabbing that I don't know about ever?, and they fail to take into account that the majority of violence is alcohol fuelled and happening out on the street, in pubs and clubs etc and not in brightly lit, comfortable and warm dojos.

I'm not detracting completely from traditional martial arts, but just think of all the fancy moves that get taught and ask yourself, waht are the chances of actually being able to perform the skills taught when you've had a few beers, you have a bag of chips in your hand and you just don't see the guy behind you with ill intentions?

Training in simple, gross motor movements in street clothes, suits, etc in uncomfortable conditions such as being dark, cold (A huge influence on fighting ability that no instructors that I'm aware of seem to take into account.) I've even trained while under the influence of alchohol and again, only gross motor movements worked.

Training in awareness is also very underrated, My kickboxing instructors training in awareness was "don't walk down dark alleys" and that was it, but in his defence, he was an office manager during the day and part time kickboxing instructor, he had never worked in the field of security in any capacity and rarely ventured out unless it was work or training.

Sorry to go on a bit, but I think that hand to hand skills are not given the attention they deserve and when they are, they really need to have the realism, should traditional martial arts be taught on a course, then I feel they should be taught in the context of which they'll be used, such as if it's a CP course designed for civvy areas, then train in suits, with a radio on your hip and phone in your pocket etc, likewise if it's HE then train in full kit when you're at your most tired because in reality. when it comes to violence, it's not going to be at a time of your choosing, it'll happen when you're at a disadvantage, therefor we should train accordingly.

An excellent reference to Hand to Hand skills can be found in the SOE training Syllabus, the part on silent killing was written by W.E. Fairbairn and in this he strips down his syllabus from "Get Tough" training even further into even more and simple basic techniques that were taught to WWII Special Operations Forces.

Just my 2p's worth.

Heno

[cpmad]

If you want to attend a CP course, ask for the CV's of the instructors. Don't exept the answer it is confidential. Ask for a lesson plan.

Make a background check of the infos you get. This is allready the first step of you training.

Nobody without proper experiance in CP will be able to give you the needed lessons.

regards

MAD

[Walks99]

Personally after loking around courses and trying to find out what was best I went to my local Krav Maga club and got stuck in. Helpful use of drills, you can use what you learnt on the day then and there if required and even if you master the basics, they are a great help that have come into their own many times before now. The instructor also tailors a few sessions to specific roles that people do. We have police, CPO's, soldiers, lone workers, women probation officers the lot. It's a helpful system that's easy to learn.

[mts]

Krav Maga

Find a good, reputable school that is recognized in Israel.

It's easy and quick to learn, and effective. It is a hard art as opposed to an internal, energy type art.

Krav maga is about winning the quickest and most effective way possible. There is no honor system, no ki/chi, just winning.

Krav Maga is taught to all combat units in Israel, from security guards and CPO's in the private sector, to military and government protective units.

It is not the best, there is no best - but it worksa dn is realistic.

Again, you want to learn from an instructor who is qualified, has experience in the field and teaching and is not afraid of his resume.

:-)

Good luck.

PS, HENO, when next you're in Israel, look me up and we'll grab a beer.

m

[Walks99]

Just to add, I've found that with a reputable school (all politics aside) IKMF or other, you can travel with it and it will move with you.

MTS - You're right, it's not the best (which is!?) but it is realistic and it is all about winning the fight asap and getting the hell out of dodge quickest. It's very adaptable and when you get the basics down you can modify it to pretty much any situation.

I always remember my first lesson.......how to run away!

[jmaccauley]

The hardest thing about any self defense training program is measuring results. If you spend a lot of money to learn a "system" you have to have faith that your attacker acts accordingly. There are many so-called "reality based" programs out there, but which reality are they focused on? I once trained with an Aikido master who admitted freely, and unashamedly, that he had never been in a real fight in his 50+ years. Was his techniques legitimate? Another former spec ops and current UFC fighter showed me some of his favorite moves. The bottom line is not what he can do, it's what you can do with the training when the time comes.

Choose wisely and spend a lot of time learning to read body language and predict violence. Detection and deterrance before denial and defense. Any meathead can learn to punch and kick.
Jerry

[cpmad]

Guys the KM systems are nice and wellknown self defence systems but don't forget it gives you not even a half percent of the knowledge for an CP operator,
It is nice to know the Ppo BG our how ever you want to name the drills. But if you have to use them you allready failed.

regards

MAD

[annie]

A very valid point cpmad