Bitching and arguing within the forum.

[nozzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Mc Nozzer, I agree with scab with some of the points he has brought up, yes, it is a public forum & i for one am a strong believer that if you put something on a forum then you must accept public comments, Scab & i have exchanged views on a couple of issues. However mate, your comments do nothing for promoting the industry, what should be said, is that if people have a problem with someone else, then deal with it in a PM or if you feel that strongly, phone them! This industry is struggling as it is, what we dont need to do is hang our dirty washing out in public!! Guy's this isn't the playground, this is our industry we're talking about. Again, this is only my opinion James Mc

Promoting it to who?

The "majority" of people who come on these sites are made up as follows:

1. Blokes looking for work
2. Training providers looking to extract as much cash as possible from blokes looking for work.

Just my opinion.....If anyone strongly disagrees give me a call or pm. Dont make yourself or "The Industry" look bad by replying

[Nomad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nozzer Promoting it to who? The "majority" of people who come on these sites are made up as follows: 1. Blokes looking for work 2. Training providers looking to extract as much cash as possible from blokes looking for work.

Nozzer you are correct with regards some of the people that visit this site as with the list above. Maybe what you do not realise is that there are many people that visit this site who are looking to get into the industry, some looking to do their first course and gauging the industry as a whole.

We also have a group of trainers that have taken time in helping people both publicly and personally outside of this forum but because of it's existence. The team here at CPW all do this because we have a passion for the industry and to make it better for all and to help. We do this to help others as volunteers in our spare time as we all have commitments outside of this forum and that is the spirit of community that we like to foster to others.

What would be of great help and some now are using the facility is the report post function. If there is something you do not like about a post then please report it by clicking on the button and adding the reason for reporting the post. We will then deal with the problem as others have found when using this system. There is little point in complaining on the thread itself as it may be missed and actually can inflame the problem before it is detected. What I do note is the people that complain in the thread in quite a vocular manner have yet to use the report post function so maybe they are unaware of it's existence perhaps.

Negativity can not exist in a field of positive attitude, I think anyone that has done conflict management knows this so we can all effect the way this forum works. In fairness compared to other forums there is little in the way of problems or unwanted attitude. If you doubt my word then subscribe to a few and you will witness systematic flaming (Net speak for a lynch mob) of members and quite vile attitudes on display. We here at CPW do not suffer this type of thing and mostly it is personal disagreements that get a bit lively but mostly end in people agreeing to disagree.

So in light of this and other comments here are a few simple guidelines for a happy forum. (I had posted something some months ago but may have been lost by now)

• Attitude: Always speak to people in a manner that you wish to be spoken to.
• Arguements: Rather than disagree, try to explain your reason in a courteous manner.
• Opinions: If the other person still can not see your point of view then accept that he does have a different perspective and it is their right to have this view.
• Questions: If someone asks a question that seems obvious to you, it may not be to them so try and help them. After all you were once in that position and the reason you now know is because someone back them helped you.
• Repeated questions: Not everyone is net savvy and may find the site hard to use. This does not mean they are a moron just that they may not spend that much time in front of a computer. If you feel that you do not want to help them then refrain from comment and let someone else help them instead.
• Postings: Read twice, post once. It is amazing how different your post or others seem when you step back from the initial reaction. Adopting this method will save you and others unnecessary embarrassment!
• Assumptions: We all know this is the mother of all "f*ck ups". Never assume you understand what a post is referring to, if in doubt ask either in a post or preferably by PM. It may be that you were wrong in your initial judgement.
• Perspective: Your perspective is not necessarily the same as the next person. Try to remember that when replying what may be funny to you may be taken with offence by another. We are not all cut from the same cloth after all!
• Negativity: Try to avoid the words can't, never, impossible as it may be for you but it may well be plausible for others!
• Self Censorship: If you don't like what you are reading then you have the choice to move on to the next thread. Not every subject is for everyone but censorship to any level imposed by others is what has got the UK in a sorry state with the PC brigade.
• Taking yourself too seriously: While people differ with their level of sensitivity it has to be remembered this is just the Internet and they are just words. It is not real life but just a form of communication. People will rark you occasionally, see it for what it is and laugh along with it. So far no one has been killed in action on a forum so it is quite safe!
• Benevolence: If someone is in error, take the chance to communicate this privately if you can. It may well be appreciated and you never know you might just find a good friend by doing a good deed instead of publicly humiliating them.
• Grammar and spelling: Not everyone is a literary genius (with the exception of your truly perhaps!) Please remember that and avoid picking up on someone else's faux pas. It may boost your own ego but it does little for their confidence.
• Ownership: This is all our forum, no one person has more rights than the next person. You are all part of the solution as well as the problem if you do nothing about a situation. It is the founding principal of any community which this is one. It may be virtual but it still operates with the same rules.
• Report posts: The function is there to help the community. Please use this to assist YOUR forum to be a better place. It is not telling tales but a private way of letting one of the team know that something may be wrong and needs attention. After all if your car breaks down you don't shout at it, you call someone that can sort the problem out for you. That is what a moderator is for. Just like the car if you do not call that person how can he know what needs fixing and where!

[Marcus2RRF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nozzer Promoting it to who? The "majority" of people who come on these sites are made up as follows: 1. Blokes looking for work 2. Training providers looking to extract as much cash as possible from blokes looking for work. Just my opinion.....If anyone strongly disagrees give me a call or pm. Dont make yourself or "The Industry" look bad by replying

Im a training provider i earn my money working the doors and providing event staff i use this site to get and supply info not extract cash

[mts]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nozzer 2. Training providers looking to extract as much cash as possible from blokes looking for work.

...or training providers wanting to share information and skills gained from real world experience. Of course it's a business, but it's not as if people get nothing for their penny. Itis a tough work market and adding skills to your resume and well as to your toolbox are only beneficial.

Regarding the use of the word "extract". Keep in mind that many of the training providers have BTDT and indeed have earned the right to request remuneration for the know how. At the end of the day, if someone wants to pay for this, it's their prerogative and a fully conscious one. I for one think it's great to have a central location that people looking for training can come to, ask, get responses from both the community as well as the training providers themselves.

Competition between providers is healthy for the market and a prime factor in keeping training at a high level and continually improving. The community drives the competition.

I think it is also important t note that many companies that offer training also offer protection services and there are two sides to every coin. So when individuals and companies take to flinging mud in the open, it can only be detrimental to both parties.

So ladies and gents. Debate is great, disagreeing is great, different points of view are great, but keep it civil.

Disagreeing in a civil manner only raises the impression that you leave. Maturity and knowing how to handle a disagreement - all good qualities (that i have seen first hand on this forum.)

Thanks to the CPW team for keeping CPW what it is.

m

[shakespeare]

I sense an attitude of dispair within this forum among some training providers which has led to infighting.

I am sure the recent acceleration in the number of providers has made finding students all that much harder for some of them.

I have noticed replies to newbies from a few providers, followed by a few callsigns bigging them up too.....

What happened to filling your schools months in advance on personal recommendation? Anyone remember that?

I feel that there are far too many of you, the market dictates and I am sure that many of you will be unable to sell your "Snake Oil" in a year or two....

YOU ARE THE REASON THE CP MARKET IS FLOODED....Now that students are starting to become thin on the ground (recession etc) I'm looking forward to a drastic reduction in your numbers.

Some training providers have reputations, some try to gain reputations at any price.....

Those with long professional reputations will weather the storm, those without will not...simple.

I am not a training provider, nor do I receive comission etc for recommendations. I am annoyed at the underhanded tactics around this froum that have been used to lure newbies from their cash...shame on you.

NEWBIES, TO AVOID THE BITCHING BETWEEN PROVIDERS WHEN ASKING FOR ADVICE, CONTACT THE LARGE EMPLOYERS, ASK WHICH TRAINING PROVIDERS THEY RECOMMEND, DO THOSE COURSES MENTIONED. FULL STOP.

Regards

Shakes

PS...BRING IN ON......

[mally]

I think alot of people on who have read this thread understand a forum needs to be a friendly place to visit otherwise it would never work, nobody whould come back.

There are some very experienced people on the forum and also some well established companies which can offer excellent advice to all which we really appreciate.

Some people/companies do come to this forum to try and fill their courses and offer nothing positive to the forum. This is something I want to stop, we are not offering a free ride to companies, considering some charge upto £3,000 for a CP course. Sponsors who support the forum also support the development of upgrades and improvements.

[nozzer]

Nomad, thanks for that mate

Quote:

Nozzer you are correct with regards some of the people that visit this site as with the list above. Maybe what you do not realise is that there are many people that visit this site who are looking to get into the industry, some looking to do their first course and gauging the industry as a whole.

I can advise on this one....Save your cash and get a more worthwhile job/trade, e.g. Plumber, Electrician etc etc etc.

Quote:

We also have a group of trainers that have taken time in helping people both publicly and personally outside of this forum but because of it's existence. The team here at CPW all do this because we have a passion for the industry and to make it better for all and to help. We do this to help others as volunteers in our spare time as we all have commitments outside of this forum and that is the spirit of community that we like to foster to others.

Big hugs and kisses to them for it. The first 12000 training providers who send me a P.M. entitled "We are doing this for the love of the industry and are not another overnight company who want to jump on a get rich quick scheme"
I will send a send a signed copy of my new publication "How to get rich quickly, from mostly ex squaddies who dont have a pot to p**s in".

Quote:

Negativity can not exist in a field of positive attitude, I think anyone that has done conflict management knows this so we can all effect the way this forum works. In fairness compared to other forums there is little in the way of problems or unwanted attitude. If you doubt my word then subscribe to a few and you will witness systematic flaming (Net speak for a lynch mob) of members and quite vile attitudes on display. We here at CPW do not suffer this type of thing and mostly it is personal disagreements that get a bit lively but mostly end in people agreeing to disagree.

Negativity cannot exist in a bla bla bla....Very inspiring, but unfortunately not true. The British Army have done quite well over the last few hundred years. Rumour has it that the blokes who were looking after King Charles II were very negative being stuck in Flanders with very little to do.

• Quote:

  Arguements: Rather than disagree, try to explain your reason in a courteous manner.

I wish i knew what an "Arguement" was? Please see your rule with regard to spelling.

• Quote:

  Opinions: If the other person still can not see your point of view then accept that he does have a different perspective and it is their right to have this view.

Exactly

• Quote:

  Repeated questions: Not everyone is net savvy and may find the site hard to use. This does not mean they are a moron just that they may not spend that much time in front of a computer. If you feel that you do not want to help them then refrain from comment and let someone else help them instead.

Perhaps the forum owners could make the site less hard to use in this case? Or the unsavvy individual should consider whether this industry/career path is really for them. If so become savvy.

• Quote:

  Perspective: Your perspective is not necessarily the same as the next person. Try to remember that when replying what may be funny to you may be taken with offence by another. We are not all cut from the same cloth after all!

This contradicts the following 2 rules? These rules are all getting confusing now. I am allowed to post a funny comment as long as the funny bits are censored because someone might take themselves too seriously? No this ones lost me...

• Quote:

  Self Censorship: If you don't like what you are reading then you have the choice to move on to the next thread. Not every subject is for everyone but censorship to any level imposed by others is what has got the UK in a sorry state with the PC brigade. Taking yourself too seriously: While people differ with their level of sensitivity it has to be remembered this is just the Internet and they are just words. It is not real life but just a form of communication. People will rark you occasionally, see it for what it is and laugh along with it. So far no one has been killed in action on a forum so it is quite safe!

• Quote:

  Grammar and spelling: Not everyone is a literary genius (with the exception of your truly perhaps!) Please remember that and avoid picking up on someone else's faux pas. It may boost your own ego but it does little for their confidence.

"Your Truly" should read "Yours Truly"
Both "cannot" and "can not" are acceptable spellings, but the first is much more usual. You would use can not when the 'not' forms part of another construction such as 'not only'
My ego has gone through the roof on this one. But ill apologise for knocking your confidence. Is this funny or should i have censored it?

Quote:

Negativity: Try to avoid the words can't, never, impossible as it may be for you but it may well be plausible for others!

Failing that, lets move to the forest and live off renewable berries and pulses. Im off to my local woods tomorrow to apologise to an Oak tree on behalf of CPW....