CP Operational Security?

[mts]

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoda Hi mts, See you thought process, but if you get the licence it does not mean that you are not a bad guy gathering the info. To have a secure forum i think that it would be a difficult process, and the only way would be to carry out some form of vetting process. Even then it still not 100%. All the best.

Agreed, but a separate forum is still a place where people have had minimal BG checks, criminal checks etc. and have attended the courses so they know what other badge holders know (basics at least). Just an idea, that distances what is here in the open already...

As you probably know from my posts, i am the last one to encourage any dissemination of information on or off the net.

Stray safe

m

[Rich H]

Gents,

My point is...if we take this to the extreme what are the repercussions if tactics we discuss fall into the hands of undesirables? Do you really and honestly believe that it would make any difference?

Please rest assurred, I'm not being bone headed with this but remaining as realistic as possible. If finite details such as identities, VRN's, CPT strength etc etc are not disclosed what is the detrimental result? Do you really think it would have such a negative impact and how?

It is very easy to immediately invoke a knee jerk reaction to this and opsec in general but defining exactly what constitutes opsec and what doesn't I think is a personal point of view in many areas.


Rich H

[mts]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich H Gents, My point is...if we take this to the extreme what are the repercussions if tactics we discuss fall into the hands of undesirables? Do you really and honestly believe that it would make any difference? Please rest assurred, I'm not being bone headed with this but remaining as realistic as possible. If finite details such as identities, VRN's, CPT strength etc etc are not disclosed what is the detrimental result? Do you really think it would have such a negative impact and how? It is very easy to immediately invoke a knee jerk reaction to this and opsec in general but defining exactly what constitutes opsec and what doesn't I think is a personal point of view in many areas. Rich H

Hi Rich

I hope you are well.

First off, good luck with your book - i look forward to buying and reading it.

To answer your question: Our (Goodies) tactics are developed largely from studying past incidents, identifying weaknesses and strengthening against them - this combined with a knowledge of tactics used by our adversaries. This information is derived from studying past cases as well as intel regarding potential capabilities etc. The baddies do the exact same thing, they study us and our tactics in order to identify our weaknesses and manipulate them leading them to a successful attack.

Short answer, yes, i think it's bad to have the other side know about what i do and how i do it.

Hope that helps somewhat

m

[Rich H]

Hi MTS, thanks.

I understand where you are coming from but surely our tactics cannot be improved upon? If so, there is nothing else for us to do. As far as 'us doing this' and 'them doing that' it becomes a stalemate? If we conduct our proactive preventiveness and remain observant to the extreme any information supplied in books or elsewhere doesn't make the slightest difference as we are trained and experienced to the very pinnacle that this employment allows. Not agree?


Rich H

[mts]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich H Hi MTS, thanks. I understand where you are coming from but surely our tactics cannot be improved upon? If so, there is nothing else for us to do. As far as 'us doing this' and 'them doing that' it becomes a stalemate? If we conduct our proactive preventiveness and remain observant to the extreme any information supplied in books or elsewhere doesn't make the slightest difference as we are trained and experienced to the very pinnacle that this employment allows. Not agree? Rich H

I agree partially. It is a constant battle to stay one step ahead. Information can be supplied in books etc. but should be limited to either staying at a high level and not deep diving into details (as you mentioned in one of your earlier posts) and should not be cutting edge. It's simple really and common sense what can and can't be divulged:
eg: Bad guy attacks and we E&E the client, no secret right? But in this instance, bad guy attacks and knows exactly how and WHY the client will be E&E'd in a certain way, the route (and why), safe house (and why), convoy "design" 9and why) etc. - will catch us with our pants down.

He may know how many n the team, how they are armed (or not) and plan accordingly. It's a constant battle to keep ahead.

They collect info on us/clients before any attack and whatever we give them makes it easier for them and means they need to spend that much time less in the field = meaning we have less opportunity to pick up on them.

m
m

[Rich H]

MTS,

Of course, I do agree with you. But, if the enemy are that well organised, kitted out and skillful they would know this information anyway?

I think the bottom line to all this could be as follows:

Operational security is of paramount importance to any discipline of a security/ secretive nature. It must be accepted that information concerning CP is widely available in the form of all types of media. Training can be supplied to the 'enemy' by their own attendance on CP/ Psd training. I believe a clear difference exists between full and proper opsec concerning specifics regarding a specific job and the specific manner in which it is conducted and that of...

'To provide generic information concerning training methods and tactics of which are not aligned to any specific organisation or unit but from the authors own perspective for the benefits of interest and applicational knowledge of those currently employed'.

I am indeed writing a book but unlike other publications on the subject I will be recommending tactics and operational doctrine from a realistic commercial perspective that I don't think has ever been covered before.

Thanks to all for your valued input.


Rich H

[mts]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich H MTS, Of course, I do agree with you. But, if the enemy are that well organised, kitted out and skillful they would know this information anyway?

Not meaning to give you a hard time Rich BUT "if the enemy are that well organized, kitted out and skillful" they will have weapons too, does this mean WE should be giving them these weapons?

I think i've beaten (well i have anyway) this horse to death several times over :-)

Stay safe

m

[Rich H]

Not at all but that has happened in the past in NI!

The flip side to all this are the many books that delve into Surveillance to quite some extent. One could argue that this also benefits the terrorist/ criminal element, and no doubt has.

Personally, I am not affected or sensitive whatsoever as they are also generic in theme and if the role of surveillance or CP is conducted in the manner it should, there remains little room for concern.


Rich H

[mts]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich H Not at all but that has happened in the past in NI! The flip side to all this are the many books that delve into Surveillance to quite some extent. One could argue that this also benefits the terrorist/ criminal element, and no doubt has. Personally, I am not affected or sensitive whatsoever as they are also generic in theme and if the role of surveillance or CP is conducted in the manner it should, there remains little room for concern. Rich H

You are 100% correct Rich. My points and paranoia are in relation to all security and protection matters and not specific to CP.

I have no doubt there will be no super secret squirrel secrets in your book and it will be a good read.

Best of luck with it!!

m

[Samson]

just because someone has a sia licence does not mean he has been fully vetted,there are security officers who have moved to the UK from other countries, its almost impossible to fully vet these people, and there are ways of getting around proper vetting unfortuanltey.So each company who decides to do advanced CP training or surviellance courses must decide on their own level of vetting and which individuals they want to learn and know these advanced tactics.