Recruiting

James Mc

what's really scarey is the fact that this type of thread is constantly repeated on this forum & others.

The same problems will occur, the same questions will be asked & the same failings will be found within the industry!

So what's the answer? The sia are as slow as a week in the jail & as deaf as a post! Some trainers are in it for the quick buck & don't give a shit, the eastern europeans are working for next to nothing so people will employ them & again where are the SIA inspectors? They're to busy trying to work their way through the loopholes created by the legislation or they cant be bothered.

Any ideas anyone?

James Mc

covert munkey

Hello Scotty,

Ive changed your picture to the infamous Geremy Beadle as you sort of remind me of him in a kind of annoying but funny way.

I know your just trying to be funny but so was Beadle and he was annoying as fcuk as well!

Regards,

CM

PS If you have actually posted in the wrong place then i apologise...but something tells me you haven't

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Rod9834

I think part of the problem is the tendency for course facilitators to pass students whether they deserve it or not. I've personally seen people on CPP courses that should not have a gun in their hands, taken aside and suddenly pass in 10mins tests which they had consistantly failed for a week or more, magic? Likewise for CPP driving and fitness tests, coincidence? Once operational, these people are carried by their team/s and seem to become very skilled at hiding but are the first to jump in front of a camera. This results in operators who have minimal skills and ability but who really have been on operational teams and can put up a good resume. The trick is to see what role they played and ideally speak to their peers. The common point in agreement here seems to be that word of mouth with respect to individual operator's abilities is often a more accurate measure than a written resume.

Roadhog

When I used to recruit I'd experience exactly the same, maybe 10% of CVs received would match the requirements I had advertised for. The main issue I had was the time it takes to sort through the crap to find the right ones.

From my perspective, as a bit of guidance to those tempted to lie on CVs, echoing everyone else here, is don't. Case in point, I recruited for a tasking in South America, looking for jungle trained and operational experienced guys, out of those applying 90% were w*****s wasting my time not having done ops in jungle or tropical environments, I binned the CVs, but made a list of the names. When I had a tasking that maybe some of those who had wasted my time applying for the South American task would have been ideal for I checked the list, and didn't hire any of the guys on it.

No one likes to be messed around, but remember that the recruiter feels the same way. If you are lucky he or she will blacklist you for their company only, if they have caught you lying or wasting their time with insufficient skill sets- if you are unlucky they may phone their mates as well.

Some guidance for inexperienced guys applying for roles;

1) Follow what is said in the job advert, exactly. Attention to detail in this industry is key, lack of attention gets people killed.
2) Yes willingness to learn is good, but, if it means you are applying for jobs you haven't done before, it is bad. CP/PSD jobs need you to hit the ground running and offer ZERO training- sometimes you are lucky to get a brief familiarisation/ orientation course, but do not expect it.
3) Don't lie on CVs to get interviews, and then don't lie at the interview. If you do and you are lucky the lie will get spotted and you get binned then and there, or at the refernce stage. If you are unlucky you'll get hired and you'll f**k up and people will die, hopefully only you, but maybe others as well.
4) Be prepared to start at the bottom and move up. Here is where those who have been in a uniformed service- not just ex-mil, but old bill, firemen, ambulance staff etc have a beeter grasp of things having done their basic training courses etc and moved up via promotion and time served- the entry level does not last for ever, learn and work your way up.
5) If the above advice doesn't help, consider it from the recruiters point of view, and think about this. Say you went to hospital with some horrible illness- prosatate cancer maybe, would you rather have a doctor who has studied for years treat you, or an ex-plumber who did his FAAW and lied or exaggerated on his CV?

jmaccauley

Roadhog has just offered some sage advice (hope you're not offended by me calling it sage, you might be a young guy). A CV is the first thing we see before an interview. Now, if you have no experience,say so up front.as he said, that may not get the job advertised for, but it may get you placed in the "future assignment" pile. Personally, since I don't have a staff sorting through these CV's, I don't want to see your high school cashier job listed first. Or a recommendation from your football coach. Reverse order on your job experience, most recent first. If you read my CV backwards, you'd have me kicking in doors and *censored**censored**censored**censored*lling down the sides of buildings. I do not want a Swiss Seat wrapped around my "boys" anymore.

Secondly, as trainers, we do have to paint a realistic picture for our students. Of course it's a business and we'd be foolish to turn people away from taking a class, but we could make a better effort at evaluating talent and pointing them in the right direction. As was said repeatedly, no one wants to go into a HE with a newbie who just barely made it through training. We owe it the guys they might be working with to give them the best shot at survival. Some doormen need to be better doormen, thats all. I'd like to learn to be a formula one racer. I think the school would be great! But I better stick with my truck. Better for all concerned.

Jerry

hippy

Latest figure is 80% I'm afraid... And as both Mr Burns and I have pointed out, it isn't just the security industry.. So, we like the other areas of recruitment just have to put up with the fact, until human nature changes..

neiljordan

There's no defence for lying, embellishing the truth or over exaggerating. Too many people in this line of work know each other or have the means to 'check out' those that don't smell right. I know, I've been asked and have done the checking.

The industry we work in depends upon team work, honesty and integrity and if you don't have that to begin with, alongside the people you are working with, what do you have....a liability & a liar amongst other things.

Two years ago someone I know was sifting CV's for a company. They had received that many CV's where the individual was stating he'd been a member of the SAS, that they didn't know who to believe, so hired this guy to sift out the bluffers. He sifted out almost 1600 'walts'. It's not as bad these days but I have no doubt there are people out there 'bigging themselves up' in order to stand a better chance of employment. Unfortunately it is human nature to a point...

hippy

And that is the method I often use... Its easily done. When we wake up and realise it is human nature to 'big up' (frightful term) a cv (which after all is only designed to get the applicant in front of the interviewer), accept the fact that 80% of them will at best be inaccurate, then we can concentrate on dealing with it, rather than complaining about what is after all, a wide spread issue and not one that is going to end, just cause we dont like it...

I dont like the fact I cant smoke my cigar or pipe in my office or club anymore, more moaning about it isn't going to change the fact

Blackstone

A lot of very positive points, where everyone seems to be singing the same tune or smoking the same pipe eh Hippo !

Automatically everyone wants to place an enforcement on how we would operate even CPW, but for those informed, that in itself would be a heavy job, deter new guys and defeat the point of open forum.

Why not ? On the forum open day, have a few blokes, with a bit of experience actually give some sound advice to those wishing to break in to the business or even a handout with ten points on, for new guys to follow. (Just for all you hardcore trainers whose legs tremble with the thought of a handout lol !)

Just an idea, as I've stated before, very few of us would get by without the help of others.

So I am going to start a seperate thread for new guys, called originally enough 'Employment Advice' and all we need to happen is guys just write, two lines, no more on advice.

So go forth and write the CPW Commandments Covert Monkey said to Blackstone, so he started a thread lol

covert munkey