Training Provider Query

co19

I would go for a Longmoor Group course!

Section8

Psd training is a good setup....

PSD Training | Close Protection Training | Bodyguard Training | Executive Security | Executive Protection| Bodyguard Protection | Specialist Security Training | Iraq PSD |for Iraq Afghanistan High Risk Close Protection Training UK, US, South Africa,

cpt291

There have been a few threads here since I last visited. Smudgepara, you mentioned that Nemesis was run by an ex Rmp CP guy. The guy in question was indeed RMP, but never CP trained. He worked in the photographic unit for the Corps and may have taken pictures of courses at Longmoor, but that is it! In fairness, I don't think he has professed to CP trained. Ken is a great bloke and should earn lots of respect for what he has done, but since he last did CP things have changed.

Silent - Select your provider carefully. I have recently met a guy at an open day who completed that course and for the last few months has been working the doors as he can not get work.

Gone are the days now where you need an sia License to get work, employers are selecting people on who they have trained with. Anyone can go and do a 10 day course, but what do you really learn! If you are looking to operate in hostile environments pick a provider who specialises in a Hostile or who have a hostile add on to the course. I echo CO19's comments of Longmoor Group. They have ex RMP Cpu instructors and a Civvy Police CP guy, you will get a healthy mix from them of Hostile and Executive CP training. I would employ their guys all day long. Choose a company that actually has people who have worked as real CPOs, and there are only a slack handfull of places that people could really have done that. Try to avoid companies where people left the green Army, done a course and think this is easy. In my experience, they lack real indepth knowledge that comes from experience and quality training.

Be wary of courses that offer great in depth medical packages included in the 3 or 4 weeks, that usually means that you will do less CP training and practical work.

Good Luck

Gabi

I normally sit on the fence, but thought I would add something here.

JP has never claimed to be ex-CPU. During his Rmp career he was trained and gained experience in a wide range of operational areas including CP and the SIB. When Longmoor was first set up it was part of the RMP training centre and JP worked closely with them to develop their lesson plans and training videos. This involved attending many of the courses. When the Ops Wing was formed he again helped them get equipment and assisted pre-deployment training. During his RMP career he has also done CP related work on the ground. However that was in the past. More importantly he has spent the last 8 years in the industry, not only running training courses but also commercial operations. Prior to Nemesis, he was one of the co-founders of Phoenix CP Ltd and built up a good reputation within the profession. I know this because, I met him when I was investigating the industry on behalf of a corporate client and had direct feedback from students and employers to this effect.

Nemesis aims to reflect the work place and therefore have a pool of consultants and instructors from various backgrounds. Not all of them are advertised. This includes former Rmp CPU (some of whom have gone on to form their own companies). In regard to Ken Connor BEM, his vast experience of the commercial sector is priceless. He still undertakes operational work and therefore remains current. He has a good client base and contacts. Fred Brown (ex 22-SAS) was recently operational in Iraq as well as having worked with very high calibre clients and principals. Jim Vakatalai MM (ex 22-SAS) is hugely respected and still operational, working at the top end of the circuit. Steve Willbourne MvO (former Royalty Protection) corporate clients include a world famous American Principal, with whom he is paid a retainer for all his European and UK trips. In short, all our instructors are still operational with Principals many would love to work with. Nemesis is also lucky to have Tom Beardsley who teaches on the SAS bodyguard course. People shouldn't just focus on one or two people but the whole package, in this case the whole training team.

The bottom line is the fact that the majority of our graduates are successful, many working as ops managers or team leaders for the major risk management companies in Iraq, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Somalia, Sudan, and UK, as well as CPO's for high profile principals and clients. Many of our grads have their own companies now and their own contracts and we encourage that. Some aren't as successful as others, but sometimes that is also down to the individual. For instance, I found work for an individual but they didn’t turn up for the interview and it was the client that ended up informing me that the person in question had something else turn up and couldn’t attend. You give them a second chance and they blow it again and then you hear them wonder why they can't get work. Just one example that comes to mind.

Another thing that graduates of training companies should be aware of, is that many companies also go onto forums, not just in this industry, but in many corporations nowadays, scanning and taking note of future candidates. This gives them a good insight to individuals, and it is not hard to identify the true identity behind user names. There are recruiting/vetting companies who use this method extensively. FaceBook is an excellent example of future employers scanning them and seeing what people are really like outside the company/interview room. So people should be careful what they say. I know on another CP forum where a certain individual was negative about a potential employer he had applied to. The employer found out who this was because they had posted the email they used for their job application on another forum, with his post. This was revealed to me by a manager of the company concerned when we were discussing forums that he actively trawled. The individual concerned was struggling to find work and he compounded this by being blacklisted by the potential employer in question. This is not an unusual practise.

I personally don't come from a military or police background. I came into this industry, purely by accident, and tend to look at people from a corporate point of view and the client's perspective. When I deal with clients, they don't give a damn that I have no military or police experience, because I have the rest of the team to talk military or police jargon where necessary. I used to get paid by companies to find them clients etc and I now pass that information onto our grads, and many have adopted the techniques involved very successfully.

Depending on whether a person fits into the executive world or hostile environments will often depend on past experience, responsibilities, achievements, personality, etiquette, manners, and whether the employer can make a quid out of you. Some people won't have all the ticks in the right boxes for corporate Vip work, which is often based on personality. Bottom line with most employers is how much money they can make out of you and what benefits you bring to them. I know many civilians who are doing very well in the corporate world but wouldn't get a job in Afghan or Iraq, regardless of any hostile environment course they attend. Equally, there will be some ex-military who won't fit into the executive market but would fit more into a hostile environment. Generally, in this case it is your military background that counts the most.

Apart from the benefits you can bring to an employer, they have to like you and be reassured that are you a team player. You can have the best knowledge and skills in the world but if you need a personality implant and the Principal can't stand you, you won't be hired, or if the team can't stand you, you won't last. People buy people. If you are a muppet with a personality flaw and no brains, no course is going to surgically give you personality or brain cells, regardless of who you train with, even with sia licence in hand. You can do your embus/debus etc 100% till the cows come home. There again saying that there are plenty of muppets in the industry, who shouldn't be in it, so if you fall into this category, tag along with them and you may survive.

Any trainee should look at where they want to work, and whether a course is going to teach them anything they don't already know. There are certainly a good number of instructors who have never worked actually in a CP role in a commercial or corporate environment. If you are interested in working in a hostile environment, would your military experience alone get you out there without doing a hostile region based course. Research of companies in those regions will answer that question. Target companies who don't have a training company attached them and ask them direct.

Future trainees should also realise there is a world out there and there is plenty of opportunities for work, if they look outside the box. The world is not getting any friendlier. I have not yet met anyone who has not got a need for security in some shape or form. For example, I was recently was sat on a plane next to person working in Brazil who had a security problem, opportunity strikes.

With reference to the posters enquiry, you have to do your own research, decide what your needs are and which companies will fulfil it. You will get various opinions from those who have attended different courses and there may be a bias towards them. At the end of the day, it is your money and your life, and you have to make sure that the provider ticks the boxes YOU want. Training providers do vary, so don't put everyone in the same category.

Over the years I've heard good and bad things about the training companies mentioned on this forum, it really depends on their instructional staff. Just as you have to research training providers, you should also investigate operational companies. Not all are good to work for. I've come across quite a few CPO's over the years that have not got paid for work carried out. Company House is always a good place to check out employers and to find out who the main directors are when pitching for work.

There is a saying, "where there is people you will never find perfection". So do your research well in all avenues before making any final decisions. If you don't understand the corporate market, use google and have a chat to companies that specialise in providing a service, same goes for hostile environments. But make sure they have no bias towards cap badges or specific backgrounds, because some companies do. You will get an idea of this from looking at personnel profiles on their websites.



Gabi C.
Nemesis Group.

covert munkey

Thank you Gabi C for your post.

A very detailed and interesting post.

I totally agree with you and echo your point about potential CPO's parting with their money.

They MUST do there own research! They MUST phone around, ASK questions and MUST NOT be swayed by peoples comments. Like you said its there money. Spend it wisely.

DO YOUR RESEARCH and think outside the box!!!!

CM

adiebaba

A huge thread, lots of oppinions and debates. The original question, i think didnt get the best answer though.
Comapnies not mentioned are Wilplan - new, but apparently very well respected instructors and seem to have a good structure, including a basic fire arms phase.
Clearwater - one of the original sia licensed training providers, again with well respected instructors, Author of "the new bodyguard" not bad reading if you plan to enter the game.
Both of these courses are very well priced and are more than adequate if you have previous uniformed / security backgrounds.
Personally if the money and time is there, then i would suggest Ronin SA. Probably world leaders. Price and time is the put of and if your not looking at high risk then no need.
Hope this helps.



Ade

co19

I have heard good reports about WILPLAN.

dermi1

I would recommend the Longmoor Course... it is outstanding. The training is second to none, plus set in relaxed and enjoyable surroundings (the food is brill also!!). The medical training is top notch and will take you well above first aid at work standards. Well worth a look!!!

Nomad

Thank you Gabi for not sitting on the fence with this.

The extract above from your post does resonate with me as I also come form a corporate background and is in tune with how I see recruitment. It is the individual that makes or breaks a successful application and personality is a huge factor particularly with corporate clients. If that person has an arrogant or "chippy" attitude I would be reluctant to hire that person regardless of the technical attributes that person has because he will not fit that environment and will become a liability rather than an asset both to the client and my company. A client will stay with you for a reason, price is a factor, the quality of service is another but the personality of the people they hire is the overriding factor.

No one is perfect but if your personality is abrasive then any mistake you do make will be remembered and used against you at the first opportunity, a personable attitude and that same situation may be overlooked because they appreciate that person. We are after all dealing with people at quite a personal level so that skill is paramount.

Regards

Nomad