Value for money?

John701

Having read some of the threads on this site and carried out some research, I would be interested in peoples knowledge of CP training companies purely in respect of whether the companies providing the training actually have any contracts. Would I be wrong in thinking that if the course they provide is up to such a high standard that their websites say they are then surely they should have a number of contracts from which to offer some succesful students future employment?

I have discovered that the Longmoor Group run a number of courses but they do not have any CP contracts that I am aware of? (Please correct me if this is not the case?). The instuctors are very well qualified and have gained some of their knowledge from working FCO (Foreign and Comonwealth Office) contracts and other areas, yet, Control Risk Group run a HECPO (hostile enviroment and Close Protection course) and they hold contracts with the FCO in Iraq and Afghanistan and employ people who have paid to do their course.

I am very well aware that training and completing further courses is the way ahead, yet surely one of the other important areas is gaining work/operational experience and actually gaining employment initially?

Please keep any replies to the point, as in which training companies actually have contracts from which they could offer employment to students who pass their course.

I feel this will be a useful thread to people just starting out and need to get it right first time, course wise, rather than spending thousands of pounds on courses that dont give them the same oppertunities that the CRG HECPO course may do.

I will also say that I have never worked for CRG nor have I attended their course, I have simply researched the subject.

Nomad

Hi John

I think you need to make a distinction between training companies and operations companies. While there are a few that have possible work via their operations side a course can never guarantee you a placement prior to completing a course. There is no way of knowing before you start if you are suitable for the role or will even pass.

The best way to look at the situation is like any other further education. You could study for a degree in civil engineering for example. Even if you pass it is still up to you to secure employment and it is not the responsibility of the university to do that for you. They may have contacts which could give you a helping hand but ultimately it is up to you to look for employment using the new qualification you have gained.

Just because a training company has no obvious contract it doesn't mean they are not excellent trainers, in fact they may have chosen to specialise in that field rather than diversify and possibly weakening their training quality.

I think that peoples expectations of training companies is too high in this respect and if you keep in mind that it is only you and the networking you do that will ultimately gain you work then you will not be disappointed.

John701

I understand what you are saying there Nomad, however, if you have the oppertunity of training with a company that also has large Close Protection contracts, and that company will only employ people who have completed their course, surely this would be the way ahead for somone starting out in CP?

I absolutley agree with you regarding networking and looking for work, however, isnt that easier to do whilst you are in work and and getting paid? Also, if you are working on a contract and working with other operators, gaining experience and building a reputaion for yourself isnt that the start you should be looking for?

I totally agree that there are companies out there who have excellent experience and knowledge, but what is to stop you going back to them once you have worked a couple of months and have a few pay cheques to cover the courses.

I agree with the university angle you presented there, but what about the angle of doing an "apprenticeship" with a company where you might not be getting the best wage but at least you are working?

What Im essentially saying is why not do your course with a company that is both training AND operational, I know nothing is guarenteed however surely its better if there is at least the possibilty of employment after completing the course?

I dont mean to encourage high expectations from people, rather, I was thinking of members who have posted messages on this forum who have said that they are saving towards the cost of the course and finding it difficult as they have families to support.

Surely the possibilty of employment is better than none after the completion of the basic course?

Many thanks for your input Nomad, very balanced and exactly the type of reply and dissussion I was looking for,,,,,,,,,,

ACT

Hello John701, I fully understand what you are saying, BUT please be aware that some companies will promise you the earth just to get you to pay up and attend their course. So as with all things it's best to have a company personally recomended (or not). If you're thinking of doing a course up here give me a PM. Hope this helps.

John701

Absolutely ACT, some companies will promise the earth, I agree, hence the reason I started this thread in order to work out which companies have both an ops and training side and do have contracts where succesful students are offered, and later gain employment as a result.

Longmoor

John. Thank you for your interest in Longmoor Group. We do in fact have CP tasks, however many of them are short notice stuff, because of the clients we look and organisations we work for after we are not in a position to advertise/ shout about it.

For that reason we have found it easier not to offer placements for our course grads, you get a worse reputation offering and not delivering. By training with us you will get a course that prepares you for hostile and corporate environments, which is recoqnised by all of the large employers who you will be approaching for work.

We will give you the tools to do the job very well and also we will assist you in every way we can in finding work.

morrigan

Ditto for us here at Morrigans. We have ongoing operations and of course would much prefer to use people who have come through our own training courses. Having said that, i think it is unwise to dismiss those companies who specialize in training. Some would argue you you should stick to what you are good at and there is an huge jump from simply training people and having the resources, contacts, experience, reputation and network to actually place those people in good, paying positions.

The real problem lets be honest is that there are many more unemployed people on the Circuit nowadays than there used to be. I don't think anyone would argue that the main reason for this is the huge increase in start up training companies, and the perceived riches available those with a CP course behind them.

In our opinion, it is encumbant on the training company to properly advise their students as to the reality and realistic possibility of work at the time.

John701

Many thanks for your reply Longmoor and Morrigan. I have no been in touch with more operators who are in work and have found that CRG employ over 500+ operators on tasks in Iraq alone, this includes the FCO contract and commercial contracts (providing CP to private companies doing business in the middle east), all have completed their in house HECPO, a further large number who have done the HECPO and worked for CRG have since moved onto other companies as a result of networking and gaining experience, from only attending the one course. Granted many have attended other courses medical, firearms etc with other companies later. Further, the Ronin Concepts/PSD training/Trojan course has led to employment with AEGIS a large company employing 1500+ operators. Having checked the company website and employment form it actually asks if the person applying has completed the Ronin Concepts/PSD Training/Trojan course. As far as I am aware Aegis and Ronin/PSD training/Trojan are not connected in any way (if somebody can tell me otherwise?).

Therefore at this point in time it would seem to me that for somebody who is wanting to break into this field of work and has no previous training or experience then the basic courses to consider would be the ones named above?

Like everyone has said, finding employment is extremley difficult, especially when starting out so therefore shouldnt the first course you do give you the best chance of finding work?

I appreciate the comments made by companies and the comments you have given, however, I think the best input on this subject would come from operators who have attended courses and found work as a result of the course they attended remembering the subject of this thread is which course helped the most in gaining subsequent employment afterwards.