Meido CP Course Review

mopatel

Guys

David Ruben is a very good instructor and I fully back him when he carrys out his CP Course I did mine in 2005 and From being a quiet person his abilty to open my mind and help me improve my skills was execellent, there are so many Cp companies teaching but they all have to follow the sia guidelines all training companies have there own way of teaching, But I must say that I did learn lot from Daivd on how to respect your Principal and to become a good Team leader, but as you more CP Jobs under your belt you improve your skills by watching others.

As David states pop down for a coffee and meet him, he has a strong charcter and looks scarey but a brillant trainer.


Regards

Mo Patel

Roadhog

From my experience the sia is the basic standard. The SIA licence says you have the right to carry out CP duties and have received a minimum of 150 hours training. But, from practical experience, unless a guy has had prior CP work I doubt any respected CP company will use him as a CPO- maybe Rst until he gets experience- but not as a CPO. While there are always amateur companies out there, 150 hours is not sufficient to teach the skills required.

Also speaking from having a fair passing knowledge of martial arts- Krav Maga mostly- any amount of time devoted to physical intervention skills can only be enough to get someone into trouble. Anyone serious about being a CPO will go and attend an additional course in self defence/ CQB.

Scab

One point clearly overlooked by many in the training industry overlook is that the Occupational Standards were developed as the minimum standard a CPO need to acheive according to the industry itself; there were some pretty big names involved such as Pheonix (at the time), the people who are now Nemesis, CR and some seasoned respresentatives from the Police and active CP operators.

They set the minimum which is in the form of the National Occupational Standards.

The SIA/Awarding bodies between them took the minimum and reduced it to what in their ignorant opinion was acceptable.

What that means is anyone who has a reasonable understanding of this knows that anyone sticking purely to the established SIA/AB guidelines would also know that they are actually training below the minimums the industry wanted and many in the industry DO know this.

It only harms the licencee when they meet someone who knows and the limited extent of there training fails them under any general scrutiny. This is what I am talking about by moral and professional obligations.

Moral because they know the student will be scrutinised at every level and professionally, anyone who aims just meet minimums is not professional at all in my humble opinion.

Carl Dowd

Scab...If I may say mate this is a forum for discussion and debate...so i don't think that there is any reason for you to apologise for any constructive point or criticism that you make...To be quite honest I am enjoying the debate and I would be a little unhappy if we, as mature and professional individuals or operators, were not able to discuss, debate and deliberate on such issues...If you feel the need then just keep it coming...May I make this salient point though...At times, in life we sometimes just have to agree to disagree...(No lecture meant here)

David Meido

Nice discussion so far...!

Scab, I think that we can all agree that the sia framework is not an ideal set-up for teaching CP skills - but then, there is probably no set-up that would be considered ideal. To a large extent, it was not designed as a way of teaching skills, but rather as a means of imposing a licensing regime on what had previously been un-licensed territory. I was one of the people who backed licensing very publicly from early on in the game (ie pre-2000), and was involved in a number of Home Office committees and research groups going back to around that time (this was to do with door supervisor and general licensing, before CP was ever mentioned). By the time the CP issue came up, I had become completely disillusioned with the SIA and all its works, and decided that I would get myself accredited for the CP courses that we had been running since 1999, and carry on as best I can.

As has been said by previous posters, in this and other threads, different companies will put across the course in different ways, and that will usually mean that it reflects their own background and interests. The guys who come from military / Psd background, and who are preparing people for that sort of environment, will have a certain atmosphere and ethos on their course, as will those who are into celebrity and event CP work, as do we who are more concerned with corporate and executive CP situations in our normal operational activities. Obviously, our course is equally relevant to anyone who wants to get an SIA license, but in general that is how it works, and it is not a bad thing.

I understand your clear frustration at what you see are people who are providing training that you feel does not do credit to or pay respect to the standards that this industry deserves, and is some cases demands. All I can say is, don't worry, the guys who run the proper courses will still be around in years to come, and the people who don't, either because they don't understand the needs of the industry, or because they don't care and want to make a quick buck, will be gone probably more quickly than you think.

I am prepared to make a public prediction that in eighteen months time, by the end of 2009, there will be less than ten companies in the UK actually running CP courses (though there may still be a lot more who are accredited, but even based on present available figures it is clear that the vast majority of accredited CP training providers are not actually running any programmes), and probably less than five that will be recognised by the industry as of being of real value.

As an old Arab man said to me many years ago 'I take responsibility for my house, my family and my business - the rest of the world is not my problem'.

Best regards,

David

Carl Dowd

Excellent debate...Have enjoyed it!

johnp

For more enlightened reading on training look at the "are we training correctly" thread. You will see that a few CP training companies are concerned about standards, whether SIA/or not and are training students above the basic core level.

Not all training companies are out to fleece students, you just have to pick the right ones.

Scab

David,

The National Occupational Standards were considered by the top players in training at the time to be idea speficially for the UK market which we must not forget is what they are aimed directly at.

Its an interesting point that some of the companies that are doing well now are some of the companies that should not be, but only do so because of what amounts to saturation marketing. For new entrants to the industry who don't always know where & how to find out about the importance of reputation in the CP market, they go to who has the flashyest claims and website.

I can think of one company who is doing very very well (apparantly) off of the backs of those actually involved in developing the CP Occupational Standards by having taken the credit for being involved; who literally came out of nowhere with the advent of the standardised training.

As much as I would like to beleive what you say about there being a small core left actively training, I have too many misgivings of this notion happening.

Still, look on the bright side. If it were not for those of us who stood up for our sector; the CP sector would most probably be licensed under the Security Guarding badge, as was originally proposed.

Carl Dowd

I would like to ask everyone in the CP industry a very simple question if I may and I am not going to labour this point or discussion.

Please consider that I pose this question from 21 years experience in the small business sector and as a former member of the 'Institute for Leadership and Management'.

I have put the same question to the sia who have completely failed to offer an effective answer.

Why? is is that the CP industry requires more than one 'DEFINITION' in which to describe or explain what the role actually is or does.

And

Why? has the CP industry hi-jacked a general 'Statement of Intent' to describe its role, a statement that could be found in any or most company Health and Safety policy statements.

Open to suggestions...

Carl Dowd
RTD Group
Celebrating 34 years Leading Activity in the Defence, Security and Extreme sport Industries

moomin

Hi Carl

Have you possibly just asked the ultimate question. A little like the egg and the chicken, how do you answer it?

I'm not even in the industry yet as I am still in the police, however I have been on this forum for a short while and the one thing that I have noticed is that there is a vast number of talanted people, from all walks of life who are able to offer a contribution to security industry on here and other sites. I will be happy when I eventually move over to this type of work.

I can see the people on this forum are from a multi cultural and diverse background offering a number of talents. Can that be quantified in terms of a DEFINITION of what they do?

Just another slant on things!

Moomin