S.Hopkins

Loads of people recommend CP courses but I haven't seen many reviews.

I recently completed the CP course run by Meido so thought I'd tell you what I thought about it in order to help you make an informed decision when deciding what course you should take. This isn't a comprehensive review so if you have any questions please feel free to contact me.

A little about me:

I have worked in the security field for many years. My company held contracts with some top corporate clients which saw me running operations as TL for many CP jobs involving celebs. In the course of my work I'd have to plan with police, other sec teams, artist management etc then bring it together for the op.
I took a break from the business for 18 months so thought I would do my courses etc to get me back up to speed.


The course:

150 hours over 14 days. (Does not include First Aid)
£1,450 + VAT but CPW members get it for £1,300 +VAT
Non-residential but accommodation can be arranged at extra cost
Meals not included
Located in North West London, nearest Tube Kilburn, Jubilee Line
Instructor - David Rubens


I went into this course open minded. I was ready to learn even though I probably had more experience than others on the course. There were 5 people on the course which i thought was a good number as far as exercises went.

Day 1 was introductions, overview and then we started straight into it. By the end of day 1 we had covered CP fundamentals, some law, walking formations and walking drills.

Day 2 and the work really started. I won't go into what we were doing but I will say that on this course you will be using your brain all the time! Nothing is given to you on a plate. David forces you to think enabling you to fully understand the processes of CP.

This course teaches you the fundamentals of Close Protection. You wont be doing any hard physical exercises or learning self defence, after all, what could you possible learn in this time? If you are serious about this job, that will all be part of your personal self development program.

I have done many briefs and planned many operations...I can honestly say that this course made everything that I've ever done look like crap! The amount of detail covered by David is immense. I honestly think that showing a client /team a brief laid out in the format that is taught here will win you many contracts.

We did live exercises. Usually this would be to a meeting / restaurant in London. David would give us the time and the person he would be meeting and then we would be left to arrange every aspect of the op. If we needed any help he was on hand to point us in the right direction. I will say quickly that the people we met on these ops were top of their field in security. One was an MBE and another was Gold Commander for the MET. During these exercises David would call a 'time out' so we could all sit down and discuss how the exercise was going. It was good to get feedback from Davids clients about what they thought about us and for us to ask questions about what they do.

When on exercise David paid our expenses.

This course is mentally draining. Nearly every day you will be taking work home to be completed for the next day. On average it took me about 4 hours a night but it was worth it and you get a sense of achievement when completing assignments. You will need a laptop with MS PowerPoint. I know my way round computers fairly well but a couple of the guys on the course didn't have a clue at first. By the end of the course they were comfortable preparing a brief using PP and I know they are still practicing now. You will also need a travel card to get you around London.

We built up great team camaraderie and had real fun doing this course.

Personally I don't see this course as churning out CPO's. To me this course produces Team Leaders & Operation Managers. If you are coming from HM Services and already have experience working CP ops, then this course will really complement what you already know. I wish I did this course ages ago!

I'm a firm believer in instructors being able to practice what they preach. In the case of David & Meido they are a real security company running real operations on a global scale. Should something come in while the course is running he is not afraid to run it past you and get your views.

As far as costs go, I didn't think it was too bad. I really felt like it was money well spent to come away with what I know now.

Carl Dowd

Nice review...thanks

Scab

Did you learn any physical internvention at all?

It is among the competancies. Besides which, if you cannot look after yourself, how can you look after someone else?

I have to raise another point too; if this is your first formal CP course, how can you say its so good with no other course by which to compare? I thought my first course was amazing (everyone does...) yet when I went for another full course instead of a refresher for my sia license, I realised how much was missing from the first.

Not saying that spefic to Meido there; but generally.

David Meido

Steve -

Thanks for the good words!

If anyone reading this likes what they see, and is interested in coming on the course starting Monday 7th July, let me know and I am sure that we can make an extra deal for CPW members.

Even if you can't, feel free to PM me your details and we can put you on our mailing list for other courses that we run.

And besides that, if anyone is passing though NW London and fancies a coffee , give me a call and feel free to drop in for a chat.

For those who don't know, I write the column at the back of Combat & Survival every month on the Security industry - feedback on that is also welcome!

Regards to all, and I look forward to meeting some of you in the future,

David
Mob: 07956 165 031

mickworldwide

Cheers for that Dave,

Good Luck with the upcoming courses and when I am next in London ,I will take you up on the coffee, if you don't mind a 'competitor' dropping by?

Mick

S.Hopkins

Hi,

I know what you mean.

I have been in the security business for quite a few years. Nearly everyone I have worked with does some form of martial arts/self defence so generally they can look after themselves. Would I want to be working with someone who couldn't do that basic thing - No. I wouldn't even entertain having them on one of my teams!

You can teach something (physical) on a course but it would take months of practice to become competent, once again coming down to that persons self development. Every one is different. I have done many different types of training, some i stuck with but some were just not right for me/my movement/my body type etc. Personally I don't think you can teach a strict set of moves to 'everyone'.

In case I didn't make it clear, the above is just my personal opinion. I'm not comparing this course to other course. I am just saying that I still managed to learn things that I know will be useful in developing my career in personal security. You will always learn different things on courses even if they follow the same curriculum as its down to the instructors.

At the end of the day, you can do all the course but it doesn't mean anything until you get some real world experience.

Scab

Fair one mate, but the fact remains that the Occupational Standards state that the CPO must be able to deal with attacks on their principle and that starts with knowing how to defend yourself and then disengaging someone from your principal.

It does not have to be any ninjalike skills, simple disengagements, pressure points, basic restraints set the CPO on the path to being able to be competant in such things. For training, we're looking at a basic level of skill.

If you were not taught the considerations of what happens when you have to get physical with a client involved (although it should not happen if we do our jobs properly, theres always a chance!) then you were short changed. You've missed an ENTIRE UNIT of the established core competancies.

Ouch!

johnp

Hi Scab

Sorry but you are wrong.

If you look at the core skills set out by the sia, "physical intervention" as you call it is not part of the CP curriculum. It is not a part of any recognised cp course at the present time.

If anyone happens to get on a cp course that is teaching any close quarter combat skills then that is a plus and they are teaching above the SIA basic core level.

Click on the SIA website, click on "bodyguard" it will list the core skills you are supposed to have, physical intervention is not one of them, however stupid that may be.

If you need any further info on close quarter combat for executive protection officers and Psd then get in touch.

Dave at meido also instructs close quarter combat for CP guys. ask him as well.

johnp
Course Director
EPO-PSD Tactical
Tel: +44 (0) 7954 218125
E0mail: epotacticaltraining@supanet.com

Scab

Have a look at the National Occupational Standards; theres a unit devoted to it.

Now look at Incidents and Dilemmas; how is a CPO supposed to be expected to physically defend a principle if the worst happens if not trained at any level to do so?

The sia website is not a good source to quote from to be honest...

Search Awareness?

How about how to actually conduct searches? Surely a more useful skill to the CPO?

I take on board what you say and at the superficial level you are correct; but the superficial level in this case was established by beurocrats who ignored half of what they were told by the industry reps in the consulting phase.

Looking at it deeper, incidents and dilemmas covers physical attack. Simple as that. Conflict Management and Communication skills; as well as "Interpersonal Skills" (also taken from the SIA website) are not going to cut it when the boss is being physically assaulted.

Its a no brainer; any CP course should include some sort of basic skills.

Heres an intersting point for you too:

The industry insisted on a 300 hour course of instruction to cover everything to a decent level in the entire suite of National Occupational Standards.

The Awarding bodies said 150 hours was fine especially since they unjustifiably chopped some units.

Question I raise to you is are you prepared to take your lead from people who don't know the industry because you are happy to train to the 'official' minimums and not raise the bar; or do you think you might look a little deeper at the professional and moral obligations you have to your students to prepare them a little more?

Personally, I don't like minimums. And just because the book says 150 hours does not mean you cant extend that. Last couse I taught on pushed nealy 200 over 15 days.


If Meido do teach it, how come the writer of the review at the start of this thread states otherwise?


Edited to add:

I dont mean to sound argumentative or disrespectful; in case it comes across like an angry rant!

David Meido

Scab,

I absolutely agree with you that the ability to look after yourself and your Principal is a basic skill for any (serious) CP operator, my problem is with how effectively that skill can be taught on the sia CP course.

Obviously we cover Threats and Reaction to Attack, both theoretically and practically, but just as if someone came to fix my plumbing, and claimed competency on the basis of four hours training spread over two weeks, I would tell them thanks anyway but I'll get a professional in, so I am concerned as to how much effective addtional skills can be given in the framework of the SIA-approved programme.

As Steve said, most people on the courses, and on the circuit, have their own skill sets that they have developed over many years, in both training and hands-on environments, and certainly any contractor recruiting teams will look at those skills as part of the selection criteria. But just as I do not see it as my job to get people fit (if they don't accept the personal responsibility to maintain their own fitness, it will affect their ability to be taken onto certain sorts of contracts, it is as simple as that,), so I feel that the ability to take someone down hard and fast at the same time as protecting the safety of the Principal, is probably taught most effectively to those people who are particularly interested in developing those skills in a more specialised environment, just as someone interested in becoming a team medic would not rely on the basic SIA-mandated level of first aid training, but would go to specialist seminars and training courses.

There are plenty of good CQB instructors out there, (and John P is one of the well-known ones), and there are no shortage of CQB and 'reality' based seminars on offer, so our choice is to give precedent to other aspects of the course rather than that particular one (without ignoring it entirely) .

As far as SIA competency requirements are concerned, that is an argument that has been rehashed too many times over too many years to go into again. Suffice it to say that as someone who has been running professional CP courses since 1998, (and who sometimes wonders where the hell all of these over sixty accredited training companies havve suddenly appeared from!), I think that most people are trying to run good strong professional courses despite the SIA rather than beause of them.

And finally, as far as my 'professional and moral obligations' are concerned, well that is another discussion, but from my point of view one of my main responsibilities to the people who are paying me money for training is to give them the skills and professionalism to allow them to be taken onto professional CP teams, and then to enable them to be retained by those teams and to grow within the industry, and from the feedback that we have received from the more than three hundred people we have had through the SIA CP programme in the last couple of years, we seem to be delivering that pretty consistently.

However, I think that this is a worthwhile discussion,and I know that there are a lot of people out there who feel strongly about it, so I look forward to the come-back!

Best regards,

David