Scab

Few pointers guys & girls:


1) You cannot trust most peoples opinion. Not because they are being dishonest; far from it I would hope, but most people only ever do one course so:

a) They have no standard by which to compare

b) Ther are not going to slate their training as gash; it would undermine their professional credibility.

-or seperately-

c) They are trying to sell you their own course.



2) The best course does not exists. What exists is the best course for you and the sort of work you want to do in whatever environments.



3) Get a look at the core competancies from the National Occupational Standards to get the scope of what you should learn on a course. I keep hearing people coming off courses saying "Oh we did not learn that, they said its not important".

If it is in the occupational standards, it is important and you should be learning it.



4) The course duration should be a minimum of one hundred and fifty hours; Close protection training, not including First Aid.

If you are on a fifteen day course and are running from 0800 to 1800 that equates to fifteen ten hour days right? Wrong.

-Lunch is not guided learning.

-Little tea breaks are not guided learning.

-Stagging on at death o'clock in the morning is not guided learning.



Remember above all else you get what you pay for. The cheapest option is seldom the best.

James Mc

I would like to respond to Scab's thread about course selection.

Firstly, Scab, i agree with you wholeheartedly mate, we as a company have just completed running a CP course, which was spread over 20 days & included FAAW, we have taken on board the comments passed to us by the students & are evaluating & amending where required.

Secondly, i have had people contact me about courses & doing their research (good for them) but alot dont, you need to look at what you want to do within the industry.

Thirdly, as i have previously mentioned in another thread, don't overlook small companies, alot of very experienced CPO's (both civilian & military) form or work for small companies. Every company started somewhere & if they cant fulfill your requirements, then they will know of a company that can & you would hope would be professional enough to recommend them to you.

Finally, The core compontancies are just that, the minimum standards that MUST be tought & absorbed to pass & acheive the license to practice, you have to decide where you wish to work, if you want to work in the UK, you need the licence!

People ask about sia approved courses, If the course is from an approved supplier (City & Guilds, EDEXCEL, BCUC etc) then its SIA approved.

James mc

mickworldwide

Agreed gents

It is also important to remember that the most expensive is not always the best either. Most companies are indeed much of a muchness when cost is compared, but it is the content, delivery, and after course services and assistance that in my opinion make a company credible.
The guidelines set out by sia are a good starting point but a provider can treat them as the bare minimum standard and offer a little (or a lot) more than that , or they can use it as the only thing they need to provide.

It is not small change to attend a CPO course and I would suggest as with anything that costs a fair amount, call up the provider and see what they are offering, see if it suits your needs and ask as many questions as you like. Compare that to the others you are considering and make up your mind from an informed position.

Scab

Thanks for the replies so far gents. Im going to add this from another thread.


Expanding on the point 3:

One point clearly overlooked by many in the training industry overlook is that the Occupational Standards were developed as the minimum standard a CPO need to acheive according to the industry itself; there were some pretty big names involved such as Pheonix (at the time), the people who are now Nemesis, CR and some seasoned respresentatives from the Police and active CP operators.

They set the minimum which is in the form of the National Occupational Standards.

The SIA/Awarding bodies between them took the minimum and reduced it to what in their ignorant opinion was acceptable.

What that means is anyone who has a reasonable understanding of this knows that anyone sticking purely to the established SIA/AB guidelines would also know that they are actually training below the minimums the industry wanted.

It only harms the licencee when they meet someone who knows and the limited extent of there training fails them under any general scrutiny.

This then falls to the realms of moral and professional obligations.

Moral because the training organisation will know the student will be scrutinised at every level and professionally, anyone who aims just meet minimums is not professional at all, in my humble opinion.

mickworldwide

I agree with you on the point made above Scab,

We have always said that the sia is a minimum requirement and that in our opinion humble or otherwise , the training providers should be exceeding those requirements and giving training that is relevant, current and enables the student to fit the role he or she has paid to train for.

If you saw the previous threads on 'are we training correctly' many of the providers got on board that and a lot of decent suggestions were kicked around ... unfortunately the general opinion was that any attempt to get the companies together and make a standard a little higher than the guidelines set out by SIA would be met by the some of the supposed bigger players as a chance to 'Lord it up' over everyone else.

This is a topic that perhaps the SIA should be looking into in a bit more depth and perhaps a bit more scrutiny should be placed upon the numerous providers and the product they are selling.

James Mc

Hi gents

I think, to be honest this will be a bone of contention throughout the industry.

When it comes down to it, it is up to the person wishing to do the course to decide what they want, where they want to do the training & what they can afford.

A bit of shameless self selling here & the reason why, We do go far & beyond what is required by the sia in our CP course, if you have spoken to me in the chatroom i have openly admitted what we do extra for the students.

The reason we do this, as no doubt many other companies do, is becouse we are an operational company as well

Where as the SIA have NO OPERATIONAL EXPERIENCE within the industry & we (as in this forum) do, it's upto us as tutors, training providers & operational CPO's to take it upon ourselves to take ownership for OUR industry to further the standards of the industry, through the training we provide thereby placing better trained individuals onto the curcuit.

i shall now get off my soap box lol

James Mc

mickworldwide

Agreed James,

We have a policy in place at the company which requires all training team to remain operational.
This enables them to stay current, bring back any new tactics and trends being used by the opposition (insurgents/ organized crime not rival companies!) and allows the training director to reevaluate courses regularly and if necessary change in accordance with the above mentioned TTPs.
I think it is a good policy and keeps the training real and relevant.
It is necessary to give students the extra training in order to ensure they are ready to do the job, not just qualified to a certificate standard.
It doesn't really make much sense in that when someone finishes their chosen University degree or similar schooling, they usually enter a job as a probationer or at work training under supervision ... but in our industry , finish and sia course and you are skilled and ready to do everything the job entails (according to the Govt)

praetorian550

I wholeheartedly agree with all the points raised.

One point that is missing though is that the majority of (UK) work takes place in London and the biggest issue on tasks recently is that few operators have a thorough working knowledge of the Vip locations they will be working in. Some courses spend so much time shooting paintball at each other and training their newly inducted students for the 'gauranteed' Psd task that they miss the point -

BASICS at entry level . Progress through training . Excell after experience.

The fact that CP drivers need PCO licenses- carrying any passanger and getting paid for it- in London, basic knowledge- We had a great guy from Wales who had no idea where Harrods was when he was one on one with the principal- and other Client keeping skills are avoided . Many Arab clients now womt have guys who have commercial PSD experience in Iraq or Afghanistan, they have a media and a synical public at home too, means that many UK tasks are genuinly more available to the entry level operator. I have 33 girls on my books and could use 300 ! the client demands and the industry has changed -it is yet to be determined if its for the better or for the worse.

Obviously Im not saying train all in London skills but I am aware of the company who put together a weekend course on London knowledge and driving being so over subscribed that they do it monthly now!!

I exclude myself from the IRAQ/AFGHAN training because whilst Ive been there Ive never trained it to anyone- not my skill set to deliver. The basics done well by trainees who are genuinly assessed and passed to a standard not just attended and examed and if required re-examed and re-examed should be a base standard of training providers. Judging by the 'amazing' CVs I have in my lavatory ( the consistency is all wrong for what some of them should be used for !!) compared with the people who attend the interviews something is amiss.

mickworldwide

Good Point

I wholeheartedly agree with you on the issue of London local knowledge.

I am also amazed at the amount of female operators who contact us saying that they were refused a training course by one company or another.... we have found, like you , that we could place as many women as are available.

I am amazed that many providers dont seem to add a little extra on their course advising students of how to prepare or present their cvs. attend an interview or even at the very least assist with employment.

It is highly troubling in my opinion that little after course assistance is afforded to someone who has just spent a good whack of their hard earned. My evidence of this ??
The amount of unsolicitated CVs I recieve on a daily basis from people who did not attend my courses and are desparate for work.
I attempt to reply to all of them and where possible advise them where to look... but to be honest with more and more persons doing CPO courses the market in the UK is sadly flooded.

James Mc

Very True

It is a sad state of affairs & to be honest i think alot could be done to educate people about the chances of employment & the likelyhood of employment!

I think to many people are expecting to earn the big bucks of a couple of years ago.

Trying to explain to people that the big money & long term contracts are thin on the ground is becoming a daily habit.

We help students as much as possible with after course support, they have evenings where we go through cv prep, introduction letters, interview procedures during the course, alot know it already, but there are a few who think they can bluff in this industry. big mistake.

Unfortunatly, there are companies out there that will lie about wages, jobs, contracts etc & it's up to the rest of us to try & put people straight about what they can expect.

As for women in the industry, we need more!

James Mc