Foundation Degree in Protective Security Management

Carl Dowd

Old guy who has seen little formal academic education for 37 years says a sincere thanks to all, for the Education on or about Education....

Rich H

I somewhat missed Mick's point??

We, as British, tend to be a little more reserved than our Amercian counterparts in pretty much everything. This includes certifciations and although we mock their outlook in these qualifications they are recognised by avaition authorities, law and enforcement agencies and the qualification curriculum authority equivalent. In our eyes it is humour but in the US it is real. So, if you want to play ball in the wider world you have to comply, no matter what you think. Of course, in the UK as elsewhere, education is business and security education is now being leapt on. Another example is the 'Certified Security Consultants' course which allows you to have the designation of CSC after your name. In my view, this has been developed in advance of the proposed licensing of security consultants. We could go on.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to develope your knowledge but if you are going to spend your hard earned cash with the intention of improving your career prospects I would stay away from the Foundation Degree of Protective Security and the 'CSC'.

mickworldwide

It does not as Rich suggests attempt to teach CP in a classroom environment.... it is based on a learning system to go hand in hand with work. I personally think it is a good thing as it is a possible way of gaining a national qualification relevant to your industry....

The ASIS CPP ??? Now that is interesting.. why don't you add a Certified Anti Terrorist Specialist to that for 100 quid too. The ASIS CPP is a 200 dollar , 200 question multiple choice qualification. (oh and of course the 100 dollar re quals from time to time) there is no vocational learning, it is not a degree or similar and is not accredited by any institute of learning. I know some persons who hold this and the PSP and to be honest I wouldnt leave them in charge of a toilet block.

ASIS is an organisation..... you join and thats that....I know a former 'Chapter' leader (what is it a motorcycle gang??) who is one of the biggest muppets on the earth, and as a result I have lost all faith in that qualification, organisation etc.... he basically goes around approaching all and sundry and asking them to join , as he is on a commission for new members.

mickworldwide

Sorry folks was trying to quote the part of my post that Rich 'missed..... '

I am stating my opinion based on a personal experience from a chap that is a chapter leader and a CPP... he is a waster, plain and simple and is less than capable. I cannot see why you have reacted in such a childish manner Rich, along the lines of claiming that I have left myself open to 'attack'??? are we in a playground??

I am not convinced that any multiple choice qualification that one can complete without defending thesis or defend work in written theory is a credible thing. Perhaps the fact that it has been around since 1977 would suggest as to why it has the backing that it does, and there is nothing to say that after 30 yrs the BNU qualification will not be seen as equally acceptable.

I have been around in the industry for a good while now and I have neither a ASIS nor BNU qualification , but I would be more likely to accept that of a learning faculty than that of a paid membership course.

I am glad they teach people how to cut and paste from theuir website and dictionaries though.... try cutting and pasting definition of 'sarcasim'

BTW reference the Rmps ??? I notice that LMG are supporting the BNU foundation course so the RMP chaps seem to think it is worth doing....

As I stated earlier , a practical qualification, through a University , with associated Industry specific theory and case studies, written work and demonstratable retained knowledge is better than a bit of reading and taking a multiple guess paper.

Bucks are not trying to teach CP in a classroom, it is designed to let those who have done their sia quals , go on to learn the management side of things and obtain further qualifications..... CP and consultancy for instance are two very different things as is management to consultancy.

ACT

Ok guys I think we may be getting a little giddy on this one!

As someone who is new to all this I think I can look upon a a little more objectively..... or at least I could if I knew what all the abbreviations meant

So come one someone give us a clue.

I don't want to hijack this thread but was only reading it as I've got a little time on my hands (hand) due to an injury and was wondering what sort of course I could fit in to the next six weeks or so, can't be anything hands on though.

Any sensible suggestions?

Same as you Carl, aint done much of the education thing for a long time

Rich H

We beg to differ then Mick. Many major organisations in the security industry will also beg to differ with your statements. Your experience of 'a chap that is chapter leader' being a waster is indeed that....your experience. It's a bit like having a very good website for your company but fail to deliver in applicational knowledge. There is no requirement for you to be convinced that the CPP is a good qualification. I know where you're coming from but the proof is in the pudding - it is recognised by industry worldwide - full stop.

CP on the ground can be consultancy and this is the problem the sia are having in security consultancy licensing, so no, they are not too dissimilar.

BTW, ask any Rmp CP guy what he would think of such a 'degree' and let me know the answer. As CP you are in effect managing the risk to threat ratio. This is management. A CPTL manages the protection operation.

I'm not going to start getting into a childish argument (you look up sarcasim if you can). These 'quals' are a business. This is the lay of the land and it is up to the readers to make their choice of a proper university degree or a half baked effort as this is.

littlewoman

And back to Foundation Degrees..... whilst the organisation that promotes them and some government statisticians say they are a degree, other people say they're more equivalent to a HND. So they would be above an access course but are not the same level as a B.Sc. or B.A.

s.stone

Having attended my first year doing the Foundation Degree (FD) in Protective Security Management, I can certainly say it is not about teaching CP in the classroom. As the title indicates its about the 'management of protective security'. Having been in the industry since 1997 going back into the classroom was an interesting starting point. The course itself is intense and you do have to apply yourself, allocate time and research your modules. Previous experience will help you understand the basics of the modules but what you are being taught is the management aspects of CP.

Mick H you say that the modules in the FD course are the basics of a CP course, what you fail to realise is that the modules take you to the next level. An example is Law and Legislation in the CP course; you are taught the different types of law in the UK but on the FD course you are taught about what the consequences are of breaking these laws, who is responsible be it the CPO, security manager, client or principal and how as a manager you deal with the situations.

In regards to not learning anything from attending the FD course, this is far from the truth. The course itself is for all to attend and not those just breaking into the industry most students on my course are managers, Directors are senior operatives.

At the end of the day we can always be taught something new or introduced to a new way of assessing things. I certainly have learnt new aspects of CP and I've been working in the industry for the last 11 years.

In regards to the comment about Serbia - very condescending.

Negative remarks about the various educational courses are only made by those without the knowledge of said courses.

mickworldwide

Hi S.Stone, I think you have mixed myself Mick and Rich H who appears to believe the course you are attending is useless , I feel quite the opposite myself and believe it is a good thing.

We recently had a visit in Serbia from BNU and were very interested to hear their plans and course content. I have to say that I took from that conversation that they were in no way trying to teach CP in a classroom, and that some of the mentioned security Providers are already behind the move.

But as we are all big boys and girls and have different views, each to their own and all that ....

Good Luck with the FD and please Pm me and let me know how it is panning out, I like to hear from those who are actually doing it rather than the Uni people themselves. Anyone can make it sound good if they are promoting.

s.stone

Apologies there, it was supposed to read Rich H who was condescending to your comments.

The course is recommended.