fredobidou

longmoor,morrigan,ronin sa,what company to choose,
no Psd or CP experience,only mili,and speak three languages please help

Hawk

First are you living in France?
Want to work in France or UK?

sia approved courses is only for UK/Wales

What are you looking at doing, either Close Protection in corporate, celebrity or highrisk?
If you decide highrisk such as Iraq, you dont need SIA qualifications..
If you live and want to work in France you should contact French training companies and find out what requirements is there to operate and train in France?

Since a SIA CP course dont give you legal right to work in France..all countries have their own standards and law system.

Also if you go for highrisk, its very difficult to get back to the normal cp industry since many companies and specially clients dont want you!!!
The majority of cp personnel in Uk have worked with the Saudi Royal family, and they refuse to work with any bodyguard with iraq or afghan or isreal experience..

And other companies aswell, and specially some international / europen governments

When you know where you want to work and with what, your choise is not that difficult.
If you go with any of thease companies you will get the SIA license and thats what the UK market is all about..In the past it was very much whom you trained with, what experience you might have etc..now its just do you hold a SIA certification...YES or NO...

hawk

Scab

Thats not quite so true Hawk,

In the past, who trained you was relevant. The with licensing and people being desperate it was about who had the license. Now I get asked and myself ask who trained someone. It has gone full circle.

There are so many courses which sprang up overnight with no credibility that the question MUST be asked. Sadly, some of those same uncredible courses have in areas built a good rep for having done nothing more than turn out a large number of guys who have done only one course and bleat on about how wonderful it is because they know no better and lets face it, who is honestly going to discredit their own training?

Hawk

Yes Scab youre also right, but we all know that the industry is rutten, in many ways..
But I meant in the past is was the companies name who trained you, it was also much about experience..etc..
Ive been talking with guys that is former rmp, or even ex fulltime police and bodyguards in their 50s ..now its all forgotten since the system and often a client or recruiter ask for the sia certification..

Ofcourse many training providers are very good and some that is not..
However, the student still ends up with the certification, wish is the demand and the law for operating..if the guy hold his on network or contacts or even clients he just needs the Certification...

I can agree with you in many ways here..
In my part of the world its only 2 schools that is legaly to train with..
And the bigger security companies also have the right to train their own staff if they hold the training authorisation ofcourse..

To let just anybody do it thrue colleges etc..I think is wrong.
And In Scandinavia its the security company that has to be certified, the employee is verified as a good individual with background check YES, but its only the companys that can operate..that means no private bodyguards/close protection operatives are aload to work...we have been under authorisation in Sweden ( under control from Government/police ) since the 1940s When Securitas was established in Sweden.

hawk

mickworldwide

That is a very valid point Scab,

Most people will ever only do one course, and they will know very soon if it was the right one or not, much has been said about this in the past on different threads, but I diasagree with people not slagging off their training, I think that nowadays people , with the help of forums such as this are given a medium to have an honest opinion... I have seen some providers slated on here , others built up as you put it.

Most training companies, ask for feedback from students and employers as to where they need to improve and also where a student feels after a few months on task the course could be improved in practical application.

I personally am happy with the frank and honest feedback received, and I am also glad to hear former students be critical , that is hopefully what will improve the standards in the industry. After all that is the best form of self evaluation.

Hawk, I agree with most of what you said , but I would also point out that the sia requirements for UK based Psd providers is becoming more and more frequent. So in many cases now to gain employment in HE regions it is advisable to have an SIA.

Hawk

Mick
Yes Ive notice this aswell, but it all began with companies that operated in thease risk environments and also had training, and many UK security companies such as CRG train but also recruit people, and ofcourse have jobs in UK aswell as abroad.

I have been doing CP on and off for 15 years, been to Iraq and Afghan, and never have been asked for sia licens..But both of the companies I worked with was not from UK, next time if its a UK based company they might ask for it..so Im much aware of what youre saying..

I still though belive that a UK based or Swedish based course with legal authorised trainings provider is not nessecarely for international highrisk jobs..since we do operate very diffrent in thease 2 worlds..social and unsocial in a way..

Even the hole, skill and mindset is diffrent well you should always have planing and avoidance and escape and confront options..
But anyone that has been doing Psd or convoy work know what I mean..
The things we do to protect a convoy or a client in Afghan or Iraq..is not seen nicely from the social world..
And is far from acceptable, therefore I belive in to seperate them...

Since they dont belong together..
To have training from both is fine..but I rather see the European Security Force / Peace organisation etc set some standards then SIA..if you know what I mean

For a UK citizen that whant to enter this industry and still want to be able to work in UK its a fair and good point Mike..
But when there is other countrys and companies it might be other companies that does this better then a approved sia training provider..

cheers
hawk

mickworldwide

I agree with you on that point Hawk, In that it is better to have a look within your own country of residence, and therefore be compliant with the local laws etc regarding home based work.

I too was doing a lot of Psd and CET out in Iraq and I know exactly what you mean regarding the on task methods, I think that a lot of people are going to get a shock when they return to real world work.... A lot of employers dont like former Iraq and Afghan returnees due to the fact that they had no prior CP background and experience and come back thinking that the two are similar or the same ....

They have little ettiquette, driving ability and deal with things in a less than diplomatic manner. If it is a career path that someone wants to follow outside of HE then I would recommend doing a nationally recognised and state (whichever that may be) compliant license, HECPO can be added later if the person desires.

Of course the Saudis etc dont want Iraq etc on a team members background , but it does still happen.... lets face it there is hardly an experienced CPO or ex soldier who hasnt been deployed to Iraq or Afghan at some point.

KLOCKAN

I think you should take a look on that :

Q. Do I require a Security Industry Authority (sia) license to work at ArmorGroup?The introduction of the SIA license for Close Protection in September 2005 directs that it is mandatory for any security operator to have an appropriate SIA license in order work legally in the security industry within the UK. Whilst at this stage a license is not essential for working in countries outside of the UK, ArmorGroup considers it an advantage. Therefore, those applicants with a SIA license, or those who are in the process of obtaining their license, will be priority candidates.
For further information on the SIA license and close protection courses which qualify finishers for a SIA license visit www.the-sia.org.uk.

fredobidou

thanks guys,yes i still live in france,im interested in high risk protection,the only company i know of in france is secopex,but unlike in the uk in france their is nothing to help people get info on this type of work or training,that's why im looking at british companys

KLOCKAN

Secopex do they have contracts somewhere ,?
If you do your training with Secopex do you think that UK companies will want to work with you ,?,,, I do think so .


Cheers

Rudy