cookie

hi, I leave the army next year after nine years as a driver and am hoping to do convoy protection in hostile environments but can't decide which course to do. Ronin sa, Psd training and morrigans all do hostile environment but which is best. Also does anyone know of any thats more for convoy protection rather than psd. any ideas? thanks.

morrigan

All our training staff are ex Convoy bods mate..... nuff said!! some still get their hands dirty to keep current. We are pass or fail..... because its serious work!!

__________________
there is no such word as 'can't'

andynorris

Cookie,

Maybe I'm wrong mate, but I think that most of the convoy companies now employ Local Nationals as drivers and guards on the convoys. They have to do this as it is becomming a requirement from the Ministry of Interior in Iraq that the locals get jobs. It also makes for much higher profit and if you want to work with a slap dash company - these types would be your best bet..!! There are a few companies left but as a driver, you'll harldly need the course for driving!

Talk to morrigan above - if they have convoy men - they're your men.

Choooooo,

Andy.

mickworldwide

Hi andy,

Tis true to a certain extent mate that many of the reconstruction contracts awarded through the MOI require a certain percentage of LNs , however the DoD contracts largely only deal with EXPATS and TCNs.

The companies of course in general have been using LNs for years now as it is a cheap option and allows them to drop the prices to clients and under cut competitors. Generally all commanders in each vehicle are EXPAT as is the medic etc, but the gunners and drivers are mostly TCNs or LNs ... in fairness this also cuts the risk to the EXPAT members instead of the days hanging out a gun box.... but of course as with anything it is a double edged sword, do you really want to trust your main firepower to an LN or TCN?? That is the point to ponder in this.

I can say that personally having worked with LN teams over the years and with TCNs , they are a mixed bag generally and you can get some excellent operators from amongst them and some very very brave efficient men. However there is also a load of dross and capped with the lazy attitude towards training that is shown by some of the T/Ls and EXPATS, this often leads to confusion and disorganisation during even a simple breakdown ... let alone under contact.

The language barrier is difficult to overcome also and leads to a highly difficult command and control structure when dealing with contacts and the like, yes most teams have interpreters , but mostly they are quite crap and often get pretty useful basics such as right and left side wrong... and that is without stress. We use locals here in training to simulate that breeakdown in comms and to give a sense of realism to the training when it comes to working and operating with a group who dont speak your language and are trained to different standards.

Lets be honest with the exception of the few remaining CETs that are left with EXPAT only teams this is how one will be operating.

Ah the joys of convoy !!!

Hawk

Andy here has a point, alot use tcn and use expats as teamleaders however their is still some companies operating with full expat teams, such as dyncorp, armorgroup, hart etc..and some of them might use nationals in country ofcourse..

when there is a requirement we normaly run a mixed PSD/Convoy Security course..
7 days for experienced or trained Close Protection operatives
or 14 days for non experienced/ non trained
All instructors have experience from Iraq, Afghanistan, and some are former Police/active police and special emergency police members.
www.heimrisks.com

Let me know if we can help out?
hawk

mickworldwide

Hi Hawk,

If you are instructing on convoys for Iraq mate you would need to update your facts on teams and the all expat aspects of what way different companies run,

AG haven't used all expats in Iraq on convoys ever, AG even on the DoD contracts use Fijians and Gurkha's.... with EXPAT commanders.

Hart were always renowned for having LN teams as well, remember the big ambushes out at Hit and Hadditha back in 2004 ??

Nowadays very few in Iraq are all expat, it is too difficult to compete.

Psd teams at AG are mixed and have been for quite some times , with the exception of the old Bechtel and ECC project (now both completed) ...

Yes it is true that Dyn run with EXPATS but they dont do convoys, even some of the US companies are mixed with TCNs and LNs these days , EODT and TSG for instance.

Granted in Afghan the integration of LNs /TCNs is yet to become so apparent as it is in Iraq , but it will come.

Hawk

Mike
Yes you might be very right, more and more companies change around
But there are diffrent offices in diffrent locations, when it comes to convoys it still dont have anything to do with the training itself the training is still the very same pretty much all over..but I have friends working with AG now in Iraq and they are 50/50 Ive been told expats and Iraqis..
Hart in the Kurdistan had prviously atleast Kurdish and expats in their teams? it might have changed know..
uspi have all kind of nationals but expats still is the teamleaders, so does hart, compass, eodt, global all the major convoy operators..
When it comes to Psd its also much variates with all expats teams here and there..and mixed here and there aswell..
But I also mangened that we had a mixed course covering both just that people are aware of how the work is done...

But I know what youre saying the scary thing is not just the diffrent nationalities but all the people that actullay should not be working with this.
Have seen some nasty people..and ofcourse some good professionals

thanks for the correction though
hawk

mickworldwide

No worries mate

I know that one particular contract in 2006 had 1 Expat with a full LN team around him, that in my mind is unthinkable ... Ag tried a FULL LN team in the same year and actually had good results until they decided to rob the DEFAC and had an RTA killing 3 and critically injuring another .... no worries there, it happens , but they tried to say a sniper shot the tires out causing the team to crash!!!

I have witnessed Expats hide in the truck under contact, others who couldn't read a map , follow a GPS or work the Transponders ... and worst of the bunch, a supposed Team Medic who was found to have lied about his skills , only when a collegue was seriously wounded and needed assistance.... luckily there was a properly trained lad on task.

Convoys for some reason , people believe to be easy, less skills needed and only for those with lesser ability... I believe it is the opposite, having performed both tasks Psd and CET in the past , they are similar in nature.... but there is much more risk of contact on convoy, the teamwork has to be squared away regarding the movement phases and blocks etc, and the existance of non Expats on the team means that the commanders have to co ordinate and know their job so much better.... it is possible to hide and bluff on an all EXPAT PSD team, but not so likely on convoys.

Good Luck

shakespeare

Shakespeare's Convoy training course is absolutely free, in fact I will show you herein mine secrets:

Taketh thineself to thine garden with a can of finest high grade petroleum.

Poureth said petroleum upon thine exposed limbs and set fire with a match.

Then:

Proceedeth to run around whilst screaming out in a loud voice "Contacteth!, contacteth!, contacteth!! I art in a contacteth"

Watch as thine neighbours look upon thee with wonderment, but note as they do not rush to help thee.

Thou have now passed the recruitment training course of convoys of the horseless carriage variety.

Thus, thou wilt become aware of a few facts:

Thou shalt burn, mostly becuase thou wilt escort petrol tankers.

Thine team will freezeth, simply because they do not speaketh thine Queens English as they are mostly LN.

Shouldst thou be fortunate enough to have a member understand the fine English words uttered whilst under contact such as "Oh Sh*t", "What the f*ck?", or indeed quite simply "oh f*ck", thou wilt see thine team members suddendly transform themselves into dwarfs, or in fact disappear into the smallest worm hole such as a sand snake...


On a lighter note, I'd look for a Psd job. Really.

kenpsd

Contacteth?? not again, oh woe is me!! Anyway, just hang around for a few more more months, with the price of fuel over here they will be looking for escorts for the fuel tankers into Glasgow. Then you would have a problem with the LNs and the Queens English, Buckfast anyone?