CP and RST Pay Scales/ New Rates proposed.

shakespeare

LOL I know you are not one of those, don't worry, I appreciate your comments. But in fact this is being pushed by a few "employers" believe it or not. If it works then great, if not, well at least I did my best to help.

Marcus2RRF

GMB have said if we want union help and backing they would be more than happy to do that. Alright so we have to become members but if enough of us do it and get others to join as well then we will have a national voice with far more kick than we have just now. Now I'm not saying we have to do it but if you want a union here it is, and I am also not saying this will solve all our problems but it's a step. I am posting the guys contact details below if you want to contact him. His name is Barry Fletcher.

Here is his contact numbers

Direct Dial - 0141 352 8125

Mobile 07921 885775

Email barry.fletcher@gmb.org.uk

mickworldwide

Yes I understand that Marcus.. I also understand the pie in the sky remarks made earlier... sorry if that is derogatory.... but seriously guys, how do you mean to deal with the bluffers that cant secure a job now in current time... ???? they will scupper this, work for near on piss all and the rest of us will suck hind tit ...

worst part is that they are within the legislation and law to do so... when have you ever saw trade union action work in the past where they have not had ...
1 full support of their industry
2 the client / govt over a barrel ????

it just will not work....

I made a lot of reasons as to why not and I stand over them ... I think this is a good idea but a tad naive, without overall support from ALL cpos and providers , the first to step from line would destroy the whole thing... I am the only one who can see this????

Nomad

Shakespeare I applaud you for your thoughts as it is something I have been thinking about over the past year too. This is not a "British Disease" but rather a global one and affects all industries. The global market of labour has pushed wages down in many sectors as people hop countries to a better standard of living than what they have lived in previously. Some move accepting lower wages for a perceived improved "lifestyle" even if it is at the sacrifice of career progression or remuneration. The net effect is to drive prices down not only for traveling workers but also indigenous workers.

As many have said you will always find people that will not look at the bigger picture and take what they can get. This is a flawed logic though as if you start accepting work that has a lower return than a lesser position in a similar field then the obvious route is to take that work for the while to starve the field you want to work. This creates a vacuum which in turn raises rates due to supply and demand. I see little point in that "experience" if it is at the expense of the general conditions of the industry. That said there are many that would not care and are so blinkered that they can not look outside the box. After all if you have the skill set to be a CP then you certainly have the skill set to work in any industry at higher rates than £8 per hour.

The whole idea of a union is also a flawed concept mainly because of the reasoning above but also you need a majority of people to be signed up to have any effect in the market place. Even if you did have a membership of for arguments sake 80% of all operatives you still have a body of people that could satisfy the demands of these low paying employers. Another factor is any industrial action goes against the ethos of CP work and would undermine any respect for people that are in such a union and branding them self serving even if the case was justified.

So with all that said what is the solution? The solution is to turn things around and instead of a negative approach to leverage of employers to pay what is right, look at what such an organization can offer an employer for that rate.

• I am in agreement with others that the term “union” is not the best choice of phrase and a “Professional Association” would be a better term.
• Membership is based in a level of competency rather than just sia licenses.
• Responsibility to advise and guide new people to become a credit to the industry rather than berate new blood which often happens. After all the seasoned workers now will retire and die and who then will fill those shoes.
• Create a minimum standard in training beyond that of the sia with a clear grading system and progression path. This still allows flexibility to have unique styles of training between providers while creating a cross platform structure.
• Indexing and grading of training providers and operatives. This should be viewed as a positive as it gives a clearer view of your standing in the industry and something to aim for.

Some may say that any grading is segregational but all jobs are different and does not always require a full skill set and a rate according to the skills needed would be applicable. With training providers it is no different to the market driven situation at present and some companies may only want to train the lower tier and leave the more specialised in depth training to others. If greed and ego are taken out of the equation this is a basic workable system. It does require a change in ethos in the industry but I believe it is a workable situation and one of the reasons I became involved in this site.

What I have already seen is training providers becoming open and co-operating rather than being rivals. Regular meetings between providers in the assosiation could be used to identify problem areas and provide a more standardised solution while also creating improvements to the general standards through communication. Those that continue to act as rivals will in time fall by the wayside as a co-operative gains not only strength but credibility. There will come a point where it will be the preferred association to join, not because of networking but also because it would be a benchmark of quality, something the SIA was supposed to be but failed because it set its bar too low. It is one of the biggest rants on most forums but there is a simple solution and that is to create your own standard rather than gripe about the quality of a standard that already exists.

I know there have been attempts before at this but mostly it was either linked to a training provider or an elitist group. This is not what I am considering, what I am looking at is a cross industry acceptance of increasing the bar for the continued development if the industry and enshrine that ethos in an association for all.

With all that in place now you have leverage with employers regarding rates which I am sure many would accept because they feel they are getting something in return and also associating with a known symbol of quality. Clients also will start to demand that operatives should be selected through this route further pushing the standard. This will not happen over night but if action is not taken now it will be too late to reverse what has already happened. In this we have a choice to act if we truly care not only about our possition but of all those that seek to work in this industry.

For anyone that says that people can’t just get together and create a standard, that’s a government agencies domain, well you are wrong. A standard is just that and requires no governmental intervention. In fact it is preferred that it remains neutral to avoid any gerrymandering of decisions to policy.

When I get back to the UK later this year it would be good if people who are interested to get together to try to improve the current situation. We already have a cross platform medium at work with Close Protection World so lets use this to our advantage and make a difference because if we don’t we will see our industry die. I think it’s time to unite for the common good.

Regards

Nomad

Resusruss

Shakesphere,

You have have answered, all the questions I have ever wanted to ask about the CP industry, I for one joined this forum to find out more about the industry and pay rates. I'm currently a Health Care professional, I was looking to get into CP medic work. I have identified my training provider and currently saving to do the sia course, but I earn more doing what I do now !. Currently I earn between £150 and £350 per day (10 - 12hr shift) and this is based in the UK, I think I'll use my savings for something else !!.

Thanks Shakesphere

Regards Resusruss

shakespeare

Actually, good CP Medics are in demand and can achieve a higher rate than his/her team mates, but £350 a day in the Uk is rare.

Carl Dowd

Nomad, you make a good point mate...and something I would agree with regarding the label of this organisation.

We have been through the same process in the professional Mountaineering industry and over much discussion and debate finally agreed on a professional Association.

I have stated already that most likely with the amount of time I have left in this industry I would concede that it is not my place to contribute to such a debate.

What I will say though is from 'Acorns Grow Mighty Oaks' and all credit to you Shakespeare for creating that debate... Discussion, debate and ultimately, timely action is how campaigns are fought and won...Good luck

felbber

I will suport Trade union.

Leon Hart-Clarke

Shake's

Excellant read and good to know. I am with you all the wa, definatley a good idea. Hope it comes off.

Regards
Leon