Protective Vest

[KNASHER]

Foud this whilst surfing about.

ASEO creates concealable knife and slash resistant undergarment

04 November 2009

ASEO are using their two layers Coolmax®/Spectra® combination for their V-Neck knife & slash resistant undergarment, offering superior knife, cut, slash and bite resistance.

Coolmax®/Spectra® undergarments can be worn under any other item of clothing, existing corporate branded workwear or uniform. The wearer can now choose and change the outer layer (e.g. corporate workwear) normally without having to purchase too many Spectra® lined garments, reducing the overall cost and resulting in thinner upper body clothing.

ASEO have created this 100% concealable and practical knife and slash resistant undergarment in order to help to protect frontline staff within teh public and private sector facing the risk of potential injuries on a daily basis.

SPECTRA lined knife & slash resistant undregarment sare a more expensive due to this special material used, as well as the testing that has been performed.

SPECTRA, a material that due to its very high strength to weight ratio and its many other resistant properties is very expensive to produce. Also the testing and the high degree of engineering that has gone into this innovative and potentially life saving garment increase the price. However if you consider the medical expenses that can result from a knife injury not to mention the emotional suffering and legal and moral repercussions of a knife attack the price is very small.

The Directors of ASEO genuinely believe in every employee’s right to be equipped correctly and operate as safe as possible. ‘Prevention is better than cure’ is a saying which makes more sense within personal safety than anywhere else. Knife and slash resistant undergarments can be life saving. Worn by public sector workers as well as security guards, door supervisors and alarm response teams up and down the country, it is only a question of time before this piece of personal protective equipment saves a human life.

Spectra® - Technical Specification:
- Spectra® is one of the strongest and lightest man-made fibres.
- Spectra® is pound by pound 15 times stronger than steel.
- Spectra® is pound by pound 40% stronger than Kevlar.
- Spectra® is used in many high performance applications, including military ballistic vests & armoured vehicles.
- Spectra® is highly resistant to chemicals, water and UV light
- garments are tested to BS EN ISO 13997:1999 (Determination of resistance to cutting by sharp objects)
- garments come with an inner lining of COOLMAX® (For comfort, heat & moisture management)
- garments are 60 degrees washable to fight infection and cross contamination.
- Available as V-Neck Short Sleeved, V-Neck Long Sleeved & Turtle-Neck Long Sleeved

[TacMedic1]

Quote:

Worn by public sector workers as well as security guards, door supervisors and alarm response teams up and down the country, it is only a question of time before this piece of personal protective equipment saves a human life.

We are seeing an ever increasing number of ads like this and more security and public sector staff being issued both stab/slash protection and ballistic vests.

Why?

Have there been so many knife and firearm attacks on staff in the UK that we need to be issued equipment that isn't deemed necessary in countries where violent crime involving weapons is far greater than here?

Yes, there are bad boys and girls who do routinely carry knives or other weapons but the number of attacks or violence involving those issued or buying the equipment is not justified the level of perceived or real threat. Lines such as "it is only a question of time before this piece of personal protective equipment saves a human life" are little more than scaremongering and journalistic drivel.

Using all Strathclyde Police Glasgow divisions as an example, from 1st April 2002 to 31st March 2009 there were just 6843 offences involving any weapon including knives and firearms. This is 2.7 offences per day in a population of 2,339,550. This a probability of 1:866,500 of being involved in an incident involving a weapon.(source:Statistics issued by Strathclyde Police and Glasgow City Council and collated TM1)

I have never worn a stab vest on a security job, despite the insistence of employers, and have never regretted that desicion. I have only once in all my years been threatened with a knife and never with a firearm. I have heard so few reports or stories as to make them statistically irrelevant. I have experienced, seen, and heard of many violent incidents involving bottles & glasses, sticks & bats, chairs and stools, and fists & feet, nothing that a stab/ballistic vest is going to help against.

May be it is time that me took another look at whether or not we should be spending our hard earned money on kit that has a short life and has little real vale to our work or safety.

[Rapier]

Tacmedic, while I mostly agree with your post, I don't agree with your maths. You can't count all the population for your results, as they aren't the ones most likely to be in the areas of risk that say, medics, doormen, police etc are.

[TacMedic1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rapier Tacmedic, while I mostly agree with your post, I don't agree with your maths. You can't count all the population for your results, as they aren't the ones most likely to be in the areas of risk that say, medics, doormen, police etc are.

Lies damn lies and statistics..

I agree with your point on risk areas but don't have the stats for that at this time.

I am currently studying Statistics as part of my course so may make this my project.

[batfink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TacMedic1 Lies damn lies and statistics.. I agree with your point on risk areas but don't have the stats for that at this time. I am currently studying Statistics as part of my course so may make this my project.

you can use statistics to prove anything 99.9% of all people know that, Homer Simpson

[mediiiiic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TacMedic1 This a probability of 1:866,500 of being involved in an incident involving a weapon.(source:Statistics issued by Strathclyde Police and Glasgow City Council and collated TM1)

While I could make some ill educated lottery reference in relation to this there is alot to be said both for and against the wearing of such protection by door staff, public services etc.

What many of the statistics do not take full account of (and they damn well should) is the activity the victim was involved in at the time. If for example all those assaulted were attacked in the course of thier duties as a DS then that dramatically alters the appraisal. equally the location of said attacks... if they all take place within a given area (eg. pub / club circuit) then again this alters the appraisal significantly. That said, if all 2.7 on a given day were somali gangster wannabe's (not singling out somalis, just using it as a cultural frame of reference) then lets face it, they probably had it coming eventually.

My point is that statistics prove... well pretty much anything. We choose the ones we need and ignore the others. I have never worked on the doors so I cannot appreciate fully the level of anxiety when dealing with a drunk, violent and possibly armed aggressor (in that environment). However in 2003 I was stabbed by a "patient" trying to score morphine, with a used needle. The subsequent HIV blood screening and counselling went on for six months and it cost me more than the injury itself. In hindsight, would I part with a few grand for a decent vest..... in a heart beat! (but this is based on my feelings and perceptions)

Its a personal decision which should be made with all available facts from both sides of the argument. However, Tac is quite right in highlighting the real scope of knife / weapon related incidents over the public perception that everyone in a hoodie is wielding meat cleaver in thier pants.

[TacMedic1]

Unfortunately I don't have the data to give a full analysis of risk / threat or to represent the specific areas of geographical, social, ethnic, or employment yet.

I carried out a simillar study 2 years ago based on all violent and weapon related crime across the Strathclyde Police area in a 4 year period with an analysis of Knife v Gun v Unarmed assasults.

It worked out that there was a crime involving a weapon or violence (including sexual assualt and domestic violence, crimes against the person, etc) every 26 minutes, or that 1:26 people would be a victim of such a crime.

The centre of this was around 2 areas - the central Glasgow division and the east end of Glasgow.

The majority were unarmed assaults but knife assaults out weighed guns by nearly 10:1.

If I were to do the same analysis of London I believe that the result would be that guns out weigh knives.

[KNASHER]

As a DS and SG i am always looking for lighter more suitable attire as some vests are rather bulky and clumbersome.I like the security they bring on the stabbing and slashing side of things as these are pretty rare but the chances of breaking a rib without one are much higher and stop you working for quite a while (no mon no fun).
Trying to find a balance of both is pretty hard so any recommendations will be taken with keen interest.
Thanks guys . NASH

ps....Hope i dont end up another statistic for your study ^^

[TacMedic1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KNASHER Trying to find a balance of both is pretty hard so any recommendations will be taken with keen interest. Thanks guys . NASH

Well Nash, I have never worn a vest no matter where I have worked. I have done DS & SG in several cities and events, including Glasgow on old firm game nights, and have never felt the need to wear one, even post event/incident.

I am pretty bulky, hard to hurt, don't break easily, and I am well trained/practiced/experienced in self and third party protection so that may have a lot to do with my attitude.

I believe that wearing a visible PPE can make you a target for have-a-go nutters and represents an overtly aggressive/defensive posture. If we had a "stab proof" vest that was as thin and covert as some slash sleeves the perception of being in an overtly aggressive/defensive posture would be reduced.

You have to make a logical assessment of our working environment, personal needs, and a risk & treat analysis. If you decide that it is something that you need to do then buy the best you can get, don't buy secondhand or a cheap "doorman" vest.

[mediiiiic]

From the (Former) Westcountry Ambulance Service Document "Stab Vests - Let the informed debate begin"

"Stab vests will not provide protection against: Axes, Swords, Spears, Bayonets Mounted on Rifles or Lances"

(Sorry, cant provide a link as this was a hard copy document circulated in 2003 as a staff memo)

WTF??? LANCES?? Without sounding like i'm pooh pooing this but could any one quote an incident where they have been attacked (or even know someone who has) by a hoodlum riding down the local high street on a horse.... with a fluffing lance!

After four pages of details on why they were ineffective and how much money they would cost (with examples of what that could fund) one statement was made in favour of the implementation of "stab vests":

"Some day a stab vest could save some ones life"

Enough said!! They aren't the be all and end all of protective garments and no replacement for training but provide a last line of defence if all else fails. Its a personal call but one that needs a genuine appraisal.