If bouncers and have a go heroes are allowed to protect, R people allowed to...

[Gobbo]

Remember then.....................twat em as hard as you can and make sure they are down! And stay down! Hahahahahahahaha

[zatoichi]

There is a saying " Its better to make their mother cry than yours" !

[RocketDodger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shortty Unlikely, as you have said without being arrested. Yes you have a right to protect yourself and your property, and also a right to protect others, but it's a minefield. It is likely if your actions were very very mild, and the consequences were minor that the police wouldn't arrest - but as soon as your seeing any kind of injury caused, or the slightest doubt over the reasonableness of the force used, then you're looking at being arrested. The more serious the injuries and/or the more doubt over the issue of reasonable force, then the further it is going to go through the courts system - right through to a final appeal against a conviction in the house of lords! Short answer, there is no hard and fast rule, many many things will influence the decision, as mentioned by nephilim and confusion. Key note, most bouncers aren't working under the right to protect others when they get physical, they are using the licensing laws that enforce them as deputees of the licencee to use reasonable force to effect the eviction of undesireables, and then if that person becomes violent towards them, then they are using the common law right to self protection. Shortty

An excellent point. It would be very unwise for a security opertive working a door to confuse the two especially in any subsequent explanation to the police!!!

[kenpsd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by reademandsweep It is harsh that what happens in the harsh toxic corrosive environment of an altercation is judged 6 months later in the cool sterility of a courtroom, when the adrenaline has subsided, but that's the way it is. You will probably get arrested but that is better than lying in the graveyard. Everything you do has to be proportionate, lawful and necessary, but in my experience it is difficult to think of these things when some malcontent is trying to rip your face off, and your mid-brain takes over.

What a great post....."The harsh toxic corrosive environment of an altercation" you must be a lawyer?......do you mean a 'punch up'?

[shakespeare]

Depends on location in my honest opinion.

In the UK:

"Use appropiate force deemed necessary to neutralise the threat, stop when the threat has ceased."

The second part is what most people have a problem with and ends up in court.

Or overseas:

"Spread brass 360 whilst looking cool as f*ck throughout, only stopping to reload or to start the camera rolling"

The second part is what most people have a problem with, and ends up with a shakey blurred picture and bad sound quality.

[Scab]

Yes, you would probably be arrested having used any force whatsoever. Then you claim it as your defence that the force was used in self defence/protection of your property.

Thats how the law (Offences Against the Person Act) is worded and how it always has been; the police only starting making the arrests for those unfortunate enough to have to defend themselves to get the ticks in the boxes for New-Labours wonderful "get the statistics or lose money" idea, in my humble opinion.

[Miles Overton]

There are so many grey areas in this is because many people just simply find it easier to be a victim and them blame the police for turning up 30 mins late. Fact is the police cant be everywhere at once so to truly be safe one has to take a part in and build a safe community, not depend on the police! My personal views are if I see someone in trouble i will get involved, I know who my local residents are and if someone breaks into my property I wont hesitate to open a can of WOOPASS on them! But I wont shoot them in the back as they are running away with an illegal unregistered shotgun!

[mickworldwide]

Some great points brought out folks and great to see so many of us that have actually bothered to look at the legislation and understand it.

In my answer to the original question... Yes you most likely will be arrested, the right to defend oneself , property, vulnerable person, use reasonable force etc (yes I am aware that one is CLA as opposed to statutory defenses to assault before someone who swallowed a law book jumps in!!) these are defenses usually in front of a court unfortunately , so the fact is that you will have to wait til the report is compiled, passed to the CPS who will (hopefully) make the decision that you acted within those laws and as such should not be prosecuted, if not then it is down to your Barrister / Jury/ Magistrate to hopefully see sense.

I was a copper for a while and it is difficult to see the wood for the trees sometimes , especially if you turn up and some geexer has been lumped by a bloody great big doorman , with neery a scratch upon him and the guy is looking like a potential 'winner of the sorry contest' ... The police have discretionary powers and often they use them in support of Ds , ES etc... but often it is impossible to do as in the above case there may appear to be excessive force used.
Also to go strictly by the book , and remember some cops do .... a police constable may arrest any person committing an act of common assault in his view.... so beware , a common assault can be almost anything.
It is a sign of the times unfortunately where anyone and everyone wants to make claims , complaints against the people out there trying to keep them and others safe .... tread carefully as Coppers are now covering their own ass as much as possible to avoid all sorts of allegations of wrongdoing and corruption ...

[VICTORMACE]

Always be proportionate in your actions against an aggressor or aggressors, but always remember the line " I feared for my life your honour " !!!!

[Miles Overton]

best thing for all of this is to learn a combatative system or martialart that is leathal but also practises control. i train in jujitsu and have done for 4 years. i know i can controle a large groupe without any striking moves which keeps me on the right side of the law!