Why are Bouncers/Doormen not given stab vests ?

[ASEO]

I used to say: "You cannot win a war with soldiers only - you must have a good general, seargants and major etc!" Today's nightclub security is dominated by soldiers - getting paid a rate our majors, seargants and generals would have dreamed off years ago. That's the reality. I hope you are going to make a difference. I really think nightcluc customers within your location will thank you for that.

If you are after some good quality covert and lightweight stab vests call ASEO Europe on 01765 692550 and ask for Robert Kaiser or ask for Mark Hardy - my second in command. We will take care of you.

[valleyboy]

Aseo lets not paint all the up and coming D/S with the same brush I have got a couple of new young lads in my team and I must say they are excelent always their to watch your back and able to do the job if called on. granted there are plenty of jacket fillers out there who are a complete waste of time, BUT NOT ALL remember most of us were youngsters when we started out I am a great beliver in the new generation being baby sat by the experianced guys on the doors I think everybody deserves a chance lets not pre-judge, just one last point not all ruperts are good leaders some have not got a F***ing clue.

[ASEO]

You kow what? You are right!

However, in a city such as Leeds... you take 20 guys with 10yrs+ experience (and knowledge who are the local badies and who needs watching) off the doors and replace them with the most willing and potentially best future doorstaff the there will still be a downfall of experience. I am not saying all young ones are bad, that would be a silly thing to say, but for the sia to come along and say from one day to another 'hey, let's get rid of the bouncers' and replace them is simply putting innocent customers into extreme danger when or if things get really badly out of hand. In a few years we wil be there. Right now there are too many clubs manned with individuals who WILL be good, but must be lead at this stage. Sadly too many leaders are gone.

[8376mac]

Interesting stuff! Cleaners would not be expected to use potentialy dangerous substances by an employer for fears of being sued for not complying with COSHH and Health and Safety,perhaps minimum standards of H&S for door staff should have a governing body to represent them in the same way. Well all I know for sure is that any employers risk assessment works on the basic premis of "Risk vs Cost". So if you work a door where the staff have been constantly threatened by knives (or worse) and the staff are able to evidence these incidents. Then they would have grounds to make the said employer put his hand in his pocket and buy staff the correct PPE. Otherwise he has then ignored his own risk assessment and since the corporate manslaughter act places the onus firmly on the management of such things then they will have to carry the can. The down side of this is some poor sole will have to take one for the team in the first instance..........hope this helps.

[littlewoman]

In H&S risk assesments its often just looking at hazards (eg. High voltage, hazchem etc.) and looking at how things might go wrong with them, carelessness, equipment failures etc. So it isn't that hard to calculate.
The problem with risk assesments in security is that you're dealing with people's intentions. That is very hard to calculate. There is often high knife crime in an area but the venue owners will point to the fact that they've never had an incident there. There can be a doorperson stabbed or shot at around the corner and the venue will say "But that club has a different type of clientelle we only have nice people." This is why they are getting away with saying that people don't need PPE. Unfortunately there are going to be more and more incidents before most employers start providing PPE. I checked with the HSE how many attacks there have been on DS and they don't even have a category for it, it just comes under security.
There is a professional body just starting up for DS called National door supervisors Association, maybe compiling stats on attacks is something they can do and from there push for more provision of PPE.

[ASEO]

Apart from having written two books on personal safety for Police and the NHS, and the fact that I have written countless of risk assessments throughout the world, I have also advised the sia in a number of risk related issues at the very early stagesof the SIA. Please don't misunderstand me. I am not aiming to show off here. The simple facts will remain simple: If you are a Manging Director of a buidling company you must issue your guys with steal toe cap boots, hard hat and hi vis jackets - due the risk they are operating in. To work on the doors of any nightclub or bar also warrants the issue of PPE for exactlly the same reason. As a builder you dont know if you will have an accident - so you your employeer is responsible to equip you with reasonable precaution measures. This must now happen within the security industry. Stab vests, as on our website www.aseo-europe.com are not expensive. Saving potential lives is every employers responsibility...