A.p.r Handcuff Course

K9-CPO

I was thinking that you managed swallow your pride and disappear from this thread but I was wrong. It’s good to see you back.

I am very disappointed that a senior police officer has very badly advised you on a matter which is not very complicated at all. He is wrong. I am very surprised how he managed to make a senior position in the British Police.

You may arrest some one and circumstances may require you to tie the prisoners arms legs with a rope, it’s up to the arresting person to justify his actions why at the circumstances such force used to immobilize the prisoner were reasonable. I do rather to place cuffs on a prisoner then keep him on an arm lock until back up arrives god knows when... Examples are endless.

When are you going to give up the attitude ''I know it all''? Clearly the senior officer has embarrassed you for the second time.

Try to be open minded, you don’t know it all. We don’t know it all. If you don't know the subject well, then please add something like ''as far as I know'' rather than implying what you know is definitely right!

praetorian550

K9 CPO etc well said.

I lurk on the fringes of the forum and watch the uninformed and inexperienced deliver 'knowledge'. The number of excellent operators here should at least be a warning to the
'combat & survival and Airsoft' experts from engaging in stupid ill informed arguments.

As a proffesional I welcome all tools that reduce risk. especially those endorsed by ACPO and
awarding bodies. Whilst as mentioned I am an APR instructor wth AW I would say that the kit is a great tool if used by trained and briefed operators- mainly Door Stewards and Event Intervention Teams in the UK at present. I do acknowledge however that in the wrong hands it could be used for illicit means. But then so can the mighty pen/ keyboard.

I wish those who know well ,and the others, well ,may they get well soon.





The

sunshine

What a great debate this has been. Those that think they know it all against those that do know what they are on about.
I saw a demo of cuffs a couple of years ago at a large expo in London and it drew a large crowd and the guys that did it were also offing training. These guys could well be on this forum, I don't know.
If the offence was inditable and has been handled reasonable, justifiable, proportionate and necessary to restrain someone until handed over to the police then is it not better all around to use them, as someone said can you hold them on the floor with their arm up their back and your knee in their neck until help arrives, I don't think so.
I know that this mainly concerns door staff but it could also apply to Rst if someone is found on the property and has committed an inditable offence.
This one could run for ever so keep going guy's.
Oh and by the way i have broard shoulders so fire away if you feel the need LOL

Marcus2RRF

Ah a sensible answer by sunshine well done for the positive attitude take note all negative ones

K9-CPO

Again, that depends on the circumstances. You may struggle justifying above action if you have a shop lifter with 50p value item in his pocket, it may well be with in the law on another case to use such force.

Force used has to be justified and should meet the crime. What I mean by that is; let’s say you are walking your dog in the woods and witnessed a R A P E (I wrote it like this because it does't allow that word). In this case; detaining the person and do what ever it takes to keep him there until backup arrives can be justified. You would be phrased not told off or prosecuted for assault against the offender for taking such action to detain him.

sunshine

K9- CPO,

I agree with what you say with regards to shoplifters as i assume that now you only get a caution for that, but don't get me going on that one.
Drug dealing in a club should justify use, anything that carries a five year sentance or £5000 fine is justifiable the same as citizens arrest under Section 24A PACE Act 1984

24A
Arrest without warrant: other persons
(1)
A person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant—
(a)
anyone who is in the act of committing an indictable offence;
(b)
anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing an indictable offence.
(2)
Where an indictable offence has been committed, a person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant—
(a)
anyone who is guilty of the offence;
(b)
anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be guilty of it.
(3)
But the power of summary arrest conferred by subsection (1) or (2) is exercisable only if—
“24
(a)
the person making the arrest has reasonable grounds for believing that for any of the reasons mentioned in subsection (4) it is necessary to arrest the person in question; and
(b)
it appears to the person making the arrest that it is not reasonably practicable for a constable to make it instead.
(4)
The reasons are to prevent the person in question—
(a)
causing physical injury to himself or any other person;
(b)
suffering physical injury;
(c)
causing loss of or damage to property; or
(d)
making off before a constable can assume responsibility for him.”

I know that all you police officers out there know all this but it should be pointed out to those who do not understand the law and the use of cuffs, read and keep up the with the changes in the law, you should be learning all the time.

If you know it all then it is time that you change career and start learning something new to stimulate yourself, because working with someone that knows it all can be very dangerous.

Marcus2RRF

Section 110 of SOCAP replaces the existing S.24 and S.25 PACE

sunshine

Just found this and thought it may be of interest to some of you, it is a basic outline.

Chapter Updates for Police Powers of Arrest

Sections 110, 111 and Schedule 7 to the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 have completely reshaped the basis of arrest powers both for the police and ordinary citizens. An overview of the new arrest regime is as follows:

The Previous Arrest Framework
Prior to section 110 of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 coming into force, police arrest powers (and those relating to ordinary citizens) were based largely on the concept of arrestable (and serious arrestable) offences under section 24 and Schedule 1A of PACE. The police also had powers of arrest under section 25 of PACE known as ‘general arrest conditions’. This enabled them to make an arrest for virtually any offence if certain conditions were present. A number of police powers of arrest also stemmed from other statutes such as the Public Order Act 1986, the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 and the Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001, to name but a few. In addition to statutory powers of arrest, there was (and still is), the common law power to arrest in order to prevent or deal with a breach of the peace. As far as ordinary citizens were concerned, they too could, and may still, rely on this common law power as well as the police. Ordinary citizens were also able to make a citizens’ arrest if an offence was categorised as arrestable under PACE, but under more restricted circumstances than the police. Also, there were a few statutes that conferred a power of arrest on ‘any person’, which applied to both the police and ordinary citizens.

The definition of arrestable offences under section 24 and Schedule 1A of PACE was very complex. First, any offence for which the sentence was fixed by law was classed as an arrestable offence (in practice this now only applies to murder). Secondly, any offence that could bring a term of imprisonment for 5 years or more was also automatically arrestable. Thirdly, there were a large number of offences listed under Schedule 1A of PACE which were also arrestable, even though they fell short of the 5 year imprisonment criteria. In addition to arrestable offences, there were also a number of serious arrestable offences that were defined under section 116 and Schedule 5 of PACE. These included some of the most serious crimes such as manslaughter, robbery, hostage-taking, torture, drug trafficking, and *censored**censored**censored**censored*, as well as a host of other serious sexual offences.

The New Arrest Framework Under SOCAP

The Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 (SOCAP) has, among other things, made very significant changes to the structure of other police powers. As will be mentioned later under Chapter 4, entry and search powers in relation to premises are among those affected by SOCAP, as well as powers of arrest. The earlier concept of arrestable (and serious arrestable) offences under PACE, that was used as the main criteria in the exercise of many police powers, has now been abolished by SOCAP. The new criteria is now almost entirely based on whether an offence is indictable. This legal term could be misunderstood as some may interpret it as meaning offences that are triable only on indictment. These offences are among the most serious crimes that can only be tried before a jury in the Crown Court. However, the term ‘indictment’ within the context of SOCAP not only means these most serious offences but it also includes offences that may be tried on indictment in the Crown Court. This refers to crimes that are triable either way, meaning that they may be tried either summarily before magistrates’ courts or on indictment in the Crown Court. The term indictable offence therefore means any of these categories of offences.

SOCAP has also restructured section 24 of PACE and created a more streamlined basis under which the police may make arrests. It has also repealed nearly all the other statutory sources of police powers of arrest, although the common law power to arrest to prevent or deal with a breach of the peace has been preserved. Under the new section 24, the police may make an arrest for any offence provided certain conditions exist (see below). With regard to ordinary citizens, a new section 24A has been inserted under PACE. This enables a citizen’s arrest to be made provided the offence is indictable, as well as other conditions that have to be met (also see below).

It may be interesting to compare these provisions under the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005, to those reproduced in Chapter 9. Among other things, the SOCAP Bill included the intention to abolish any common law power of arrest without warrant. Had this been enacted, it would have removed the common law power to prevent or deal with a breach of the peace from both the police and ordinary citizens. Also, the proposed s.24A of PACE under the Bill would have given non-police officers much greater powers of arrest by enabling them to arrest for any offence, although subject to certain conditions. The 2005 Act has limited this power to indictable offences which significantly reduced the scope for making a citizen’s arrest compared to the original proposals.
* The term ‘indictable offence’ means an offence which is triable only
on indictment or an offence which may be tried on indictment (in other
words triable either way).

Triable only on Indictment

Murder, manslaughter, robbery, assault with intent to rob, *censored**censored**censored**censored*, kidnapping, riot, blackmail, hostage-taking, aggravated burglary, wounding or causing grievous bodily harm with intent, administering poison, aggravated criminal damage, aggravated arson, possession of firearm with intent to endanger life or injure property, possession of firearm or imitation firearm with intent to cause fear of violence, use of firearm or imitation firearm to resist arrest, carrying firearm or imitation firearm with intent to commit indictable offence, causing explosion likely to endanger life or property, causing death by dangerous driving, causing death by careless driving when under the influence of drink or drugs, perjury in a judicial proceeding, perverting the course of justice.


Triable either way

Theft, violent disorder, affray, fear or provocation of violence when racially aggravated, intentionally causing harassment, alarm or distress when racially or religiously aggravated, assault with intent to resist or prevent arrest, dangerous driving, assault occasioning actual bodily harm, wounding or inflicting grievous bodily harm, handling stolen goods, making off without payment, false accounting, forgery, obtaining property by deception, obtaining services by deception, burglary (most forms), going equipped for stealing, money laundering offences, simple criminal damage, simple arson, possession of an article with intent to destroy or damage property, and the vast majority of drug offences (this includes their unlawful possession, supply, possession with intent to supply, and manufacture, as well as cultivating the cannabis plant, and allowing certain drug activities on premises).

kirk

[quote=sunshine;13535]K9- CPO,

I agree with what you say with regards to shoplifters as i assume that now you only get a caution for that, but don't get me going on that one.

hi im a DS/SG not been doing it for too long but with all of my arrests i push for prosecution, ie we hand them over to the police or take civil recovery action against the individual, unfortunately though you are right many are just handed a cauton, however now in my area fixed penalty tickets are increasingly common for thefts under a certain value, ie £100. i do not use handcuffs but having been assaulted by a known shoplifter( SHE, yes it was a woman, pulled me into a road and bit me, oh and she was stealing to fund a heroin addiction) i would consider doing the course, unfortunately my company prohibits me using them when working a one of their security guards. thanks for all the useful info guys, keep going.