Unprepaired DS...

VICTORMACE

I don't see how its possible to teach restraint techniques to DS and for them to be allowed to successfully use these techniques when here in Belfast recently we have had a rash of door supervisors going to court I believe on a section I think 44 or 46, which believe it or not had no physical contact at all ,just in the eyes of those being ejected from the club, they felt threatened by the door supervisors actions. The police seem only to ready for what ever reason to charge DS's with this offence. I had a good collegue charged with this only to have it thrown out of court 18 months later.

RTS

I am not sure of the Laws in Belfast, but it is practical to teach Door Staff C&R. There are very good courses that go in depth with the Law and Legislation surrounding the use of force for physical restraint / self defence as well as technique, where as others will only go into the restraint holds, this is where DS find their selves in trouble with the police as when asked why they used force they have no idea of the Law and cannot verbally defend their selves. Also C&R is not going to prevent you from being questioned or arrested it is your understanding of what you done and how you put it across to the police / court, if you are found guilty or not. If DS out there want to carry on putting people in head locks and full nelsons crack on but they will come unstuck, and if it causes a serious injury or death not only can the DS get done but so can the venue and the security company under the new Corporate Manslaughter & Corporate Homicide Act, and does not matter if the DS was employed, part time, self employed, sub contracting the venue / security company can still be prosecuted.

KeithB
Response Training Services

chris p

Hi, I know what you mean but your sia ds is just a starting point , the course dwells on conflict management , and the de-escalation of trouble there are a few companies out there who offer futher courses.

VICTORMACE

Teaching C&R to door supervisors is fine in my opinion, speaking as a 20+ years experience DS, but on the spot when an incident occurs, when you have to actually use control and restraint techniques its how the police interpret your use of those techniques. I've seen many a good fellow door supervisor end up in court using just that, control and restraint ! I'll probably get roasted for my next statement but as I say, I talk from experience,and things are slightly different in Belfast. There does seem to be some and I repeat some, not many police officers who still take a dim view on DS's, and are biased against them from the of, on arrival at the scene of an incident.

dannyboy489

I think it depends on the reputation of the company. I occasionally go back on the doors (yes i'm still licenced) for a friend and her company has an excellent reputation with the local constabulary. If the police have to turn out then we are very much on the same side. I've also been on the other end of it when plod seems to have it in for you even though the drunk raving lunatic is spitting and swearing and trying to do all sorts of nasty things to you as you restrain him. That was working for a different company who were not so well regarded.

mjay

victor as you can see in my previous post in this thread i believe you are right.
that said however it is some of our colleagues that have given ds a bad name throughout the industry not just northern ireland.
i do the doors here as well and i can see the prejudice that police can have towards ds, however i dont know if you are aware (and i dont wish to try to patronise yo or teach you how to suck eggs), when the sia comes into force here pub liciensing laws are being brought into line with those in the mainland and that in tself will make our job a lot easier in the long run.
the bottom line mate is companies are dubious about teching physical intervention as part of a ds course so it is up to the individual to aquire there own course and skill set that comes with it.
just my humble opinion as i said.