Question - Page 2 - Close Protection Forum and Surveillance Forum

shakespeare · 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlewoman

I'm sure there are many ex-mil who have done roles such as chef, mechanic etc. who are very good at their job (ie in CP work). However I happened to work with one ex para chef who was a complete waste of space and got binned from the job. He spent his whole time reading newspapers and magazines when he was meant to be watching for intruders. I'm just saying that just because someone once served their country does not guarantee they'll be good at their job. Equally because someone hasn't, doesn't mean they be crap at it. I've been in my current Rst job for over 3 months now and I've seen a few ex-mil types not get invited to stay. There are two of us who are ex-DS, there were also some ex-DS who weren't suitable.

As someone else said radio procedure isn't rocket science, its pretty easy to pick up (unless you're going to be in an environment where you're using code books). You don't have to be ex-mil to be able to navigate either, some civies can read maps. There are other jobs where people are used to working as a team, taking instructions and working under pressure.

Personal slating of people you work with is unprofessional and of no interest to me.

You have just recently recieved your sia badge and been working in an Rst role for 12 weeks. Congratulations on your achievements. With your attitude and skill set, you will obviously progress to a CP role rapdily and join teams containing ex-SAS, SBS, Marines, FFL, Paras, Inf. etc. Hopefully you will make your personal veiws clear to them also.

I found this introduction you made littlewoman...

Quote:

Hello All,
I've been a door supervisor for 5 years now mostly working at a live music venue. I got my CP license last September and have been doing a bit of CP related work since then. I also steward at a sports ground.

I had major problems with both my licenses due to having lived in some far off and distant land (Ireland) for some time. I've also had cause to contact the sia on numerous occasions trying to figure out what comes under what license etc. I now have a contact at the SIA who I can email to ask questions, he then passes it on to the relevant department.

I rest my case.

mickworldwide · 06-07-2008, 04:31 PM

Hi All,

I mentioned Comms and Radio procedure as well as Navs and whilst I readily admit that they are not rocket science ... they are merely an example as to why some companies may chose not to accept a person on a course, I did not say that it was my personal policy .... It is also important to point out however that they are not easy skills to master as some have suggested, at least not correctly.

If we want to approach another reason why courses wont take some people it is because of their lack of chances for employment .... I personally would find it difficult to justify training a person under the age of 23 , on a HECPO course ... regardless of money in the bank etc , as I know the guy / girl has little to no chance of employment thereafter....

Little Woman , I feel the thread has been a bit harsh towards you , but I am also going to say that given a choice between a Ex Copper, RMP, Para, RM , etc and a D/S all with the same civi licenses ... I would be inclined to pick the Mil or Bill first .... chef or not... that is no way meant to detract from D/S personnel as they are doing a grand job... but at least Mil and Bill personnel have had a lot of discipline and learnt how to follow orders to a tee and had a lot more experience in team work and fitting in.

kenpsd · 06-07-2008, 06:13 PM

A Para Chef?? Bloody hell...the ultimate Trained Killer!!! LOL

kodris · **Just my 2 cents**

I think the gist of this thread is the fact that Mill Or Bill service can for the most part ensure a benchmark of training, experience and professionalism.

However having been in the military and working CP for quite some time I can honestly say I have met good and bad from both civy and mill backgrounds.

Motivation apptitude and attitude count for an awfull lot.

I'm not ashamed to admit during harder times since demobing I have worked DS and met some really good guys (and some complete knobs).

I've also been on a particular foriegn CP job with ex mill guys who embarressed me by there unprofessional conduct ignorance and lack of knowledge or experience of CP operations.

MY main point being I'm ex mill and fiercly proud of my achievments and unit however I'm not opposed to the right candidates from civillian background joining the industry.

No BS it will be a hard slog to get the right training, gain respect and confidence and network in the right circles but that is down to you Jay but most of us millitary thrive on the premise the harder the challenge the more we relish it so the choice is yours.

Some good training operators I have instructed for as a guest are Meido in Kilburn London, or Rst Ltd near old compten ST London.

These guys have good contacts to get the right pupils a start in rst type roles to gain experience then the ball is in your hands, always remember you get good by being around good people

Just my 2 cents hope it helps.

shakespeare · 06-07-2008, 08:25 PM

Please don't think I'm saying that civis and DS are not up to the job. I have met many professional guys/girls from many different backgrounds. If someone comes on here and slates the military such a little woman did, I have no option but to defend the mil. operators too.

kodris · 06-07-2008, 08:51 PM

I take your point Shakespeare,

And I'm not beyond showing my teeth in that respect sometimes, however I'm just trying to infuse a little Diplomacy on the subject as I don't think any offence was meant.

I will however say this all concerned should realise that CPO are not intended to fight battles or retake enemy held positions, often losing good friends in the process. therefore it is always prudent to show some respect when in dialogue with people who are tempered by the different experiences and pride gained in serving the military way of life.

Having said that in civy street we of the military have a responsibilty to show units, regs and collegue's in the best and most professional light.

Thats how I see it argueing gets us nowhere listening and debating expands the mind and posability of perspective, now enough retoric but nice talking to you all

ATB

80085 · **Capability...**

Sorry just thought I would add something,

This is a question that has come up many times before about who should and who shouldn't be employed for CP position both HE and non HE.

Without sounding stupid, if you have already been trained for a hostile environment, be it you have held any position in the military, or have had the opportunity to work in a HE then you already have an edge on someone who has not. They already have the discipline etc like it has been already mentioned in previous threads.

As for Commercial CP and Rst then it might be slightly different, but I am guessing they would still have an edge on civvi guys n gals applying for the same position due to their military background.

At the end of the day if you are capable then you are capable, surely... there are some DS that shouldn't be just that let alone CP. It prob goes for some military people also.

The world is made up of different people and backgrounds etc , each having something slightly different to offer...
Just like an CP team, every CPO has their own edge and something different to offer from the next one. Then they join a team to make that team a little more diverse than the previous one...

Just a different view...

kodris · **Just to clarify**

Hi Lildev,

I agree with you and actually its what I'm trying to say all along.

However I will make this very clear the CP role I've been talking about (and I'll make this simple for all here) is non hostile environment, Iraq, Afghan and other conflict zones should be left to the people who have trained for many long years and had the experience to operate in these place's i.e. Military and ex mill personel.

This is not bias or favouratism its just fact, 5 weeks in SA on course does not in my opinion constitute the type of second nature reactive & inbuilt responsivness that years of military training does.

There are very few operators I've come across who have spent the time on training in all the individual skill sets "albeit private training" to create the type of mind set, reaction skills and generally the type of operative that could gell proficiantly with an operational armed team.

That is not to say that it can't or has not been done.

For all complete new comers to the industry.

To summerise if you wish to train for Close Protection work by all means do and all the best to you, but do not expect to finnish your course and recieve a badge then jump on a team in Iraq, because that simply is not going to happen. It may even take a number of years doing Rst and maybe a number of small CP low risk BG roles before you make it on to a dedicated CP team.

But that is the nature of being a professional it takes time and dedication and a willingness to learn, if you believe these are qualities you posess then by all means go for it but just remember be realistic.

ATB

Kodris

shakespeare · 06-07-2008, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kodris

Hi Lildev,

I agree with you and actually its what I'm trying to say all along.

However I will make this very clear the CP role I've been talking about (and I'll make this simple for all here) is non hostile environment, Iraq, Afghan and other conflict zones should be left to the people who have trained for many long years and had the experience to operate in these place's i.e. Military and ex mill personel.

This is not bias or favouratism its just fact, 5 weeks in SA on course does not in my opinion constitute the type of second nature reactive & inbuilt responsivness that years of military training does.

There are very few operators I've come across who have spent the time on training in all the individual skill sets "albeit private training" to create the type of mind set, reaction skills and generally the type of operative that could gell proficiantly with an operational armed team.

That is not to say that it can't or has not been done.

For all complete new comers to the industry.

To summerise if you wish to train for Close Protection work by all means do and all the best to you, but do not expect to finnish your course and recieve a badge then jump on a team in Iraq, because that simply is not going to happen. It may even take a number of years doing RST and maybe a number of small CP low risk BG roles before you make it on to a dedicated CP team.

But that is the nature of being a professional it takes time and dedication and a willingness to learn, if you believe these are qualities you posess then by all means go for it but just remember be realistic.

ATB

Kodris

Excellent post. May I just add add that new operators, having just completed a course, should not offer their services for free either.

littlewoman · 06-07-2008, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakespeare

Please don't think I'm saying that civis and DS are not up to the job. I have met many professional guys/girls from many different backgrounds. If someone comes on here and slates the military such a little woman did, I have no option but to defend the mil. operators too.

I did not slate the military, I merely said that there are some ex-mil people who are not good at their job. Most of the ex-mil people I have worked with are good at their job and in general I have found them better to work with than people from other backgrounds. But I also think that people need to look at someone's record carefully rather than making a blanket judgement. You need to look at what experiences and skills people have. Some people may have had other jobs that have the skills you require.

I would agree that people should not be in hostile environments unless they have the relevant experience.

As for the suggestion that it was unprofessional of me to say something bad about someone I worked with - I didn't name him, I was merely saying that such people do exist and if I had not actually stated an example, no doubt I would have been told that I didn't know what I was talking about.

Just for the record. Not everything about me is in my profile.

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