initial training complete, very pleased with the result

[Carl Dowd]

3 TIMES I HAVE ATTEMPTED TO REPLY TO A POST OR THREAD WITH 3 FAILURES...IT IS BECOMING RATHER TEDIOUS AND BORING..CAN WE SORT THIS PLEASE ADMIN????????????????????

CARL DOWD
Unsigned

[psdtraining]

Definition of PROFESSIONAL

pro·fes·sion·al
–adjective
1. following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder.
2. of, pertaining to, or connected with a profession: professional studies.
3. appropriate to a profession: professional objectivity.
4. engaged in one of the learned professions: A lawyer is a professional person.
5. following as a business an occupation ordinarily engaged in as a pastime: a professional golfer.
6. making a business or constant practice of something not properly to be regarded as a business: “A salesman,” he said, “is a professional optimist.”
7. undertaken or engaged in as a means of livelihood or for gain: professional baseball.
8. of or for a professional person or his or her place of business or work: a professional apartment; professional equipment.
9. done by a professional; expert: professional car repairs.
–noun
10. a person who belongs to one of the professions, esp. one of the learned professions.
11. a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs: a golf professional.
12. an expert player, as of golf or tennis, serving as a teacher, consultant, performer, or contestant; pro.
13. a person who is expert at his or her work: You can tell by her comments that this editor is a real professional.

Question is: Are you a professional or not?

[morrigan]

Shakespeare
Sorry but i have to disagree with your comments towards this guy. He is newly badged with no prior experience (if my understanding is correct) and has decided that he is willing to give a potential employer an opportunity to see how valuable he can be . With the proviso's i mention in a previous post, i see nothing wrong with that.

I take it that the poster is not taking out an advert in a national newspaper and sending a message that all employers might suddenly start asking folk to 'audition' and so on.

The reason i asked him to keep us informed is that i have misgivings about the motives of those that do opt to give him a go on this basis and am interested in hearing the guys experience.

I take it as read (the first time) that an adult who has undertaken to work in this industry has the smarts to gauge whether he is being used or not.

No offense meant shakespear but i think you are jumping on this guy a little unfairly, i don't believe his intention is to 'work for free' as you put it but to showcase himself.

[shakespeare]

Quote:

Originally Posted by morrigan Shakespeare Sorry but i have to disagree with your comments towards this guy. He is newly badged with no prior experience (if my understanding is correct) and has decided that he is willing to give a potential employer an opportunity to see how valuable he can be . With the proviso's i mention in a previous post, i see nothing wrong with that. I take it that the poster is not taking out an advert in a national newspaper and sending a message that all employers might suddenly start asking folk to 'audition' and so on. The reason i asked him to keep us informed is that i have misgivings about the motives of those that do opt to give him a go on this basis and am interested in hearing the guys experience. I take it as read (the first time) that an adult who has undertaken to work in this industry has the smarts to gauge whether he is being used or not. No offense meant shakespear but i think you are jumping on this guy a little unfairly, i don't believe his intention is to 'work for free' as you put it but to showcase himself.

Sorry, but I disagree. This same senario started a few years ago in CP, and now the wages have dropped accordingly. Its just not done IMHO. sia haven't touched Surv. yet, so he should be able to get a paid position without having to offer his services for free just to get into a company. A few "large" recruiters start ops. of on a 2-4 week paid probation to see if the op. is up to standard and proves his/her worth, there is no need to work for free. My earlier words could be taken as a bit harsh, but I want people to know they are just shooting themselves in the foot by following this particular unpaid route.

[morrigan]

It would be a boring world if we all felt the same way mate.....i do understand what your saying and your reasons for saying it.

[yoda]

I'm confused with this issue, all the lad is trying to get is experience one way or the other and he got slatted.

Yes Shakespeare, i can see your point of view and yes i understand it too, i also understand that you are not PC etc (from previous postings). But maybe some constructive criticism would be more effective and more professional.

Some of the companies out there will not give you work due to lack of experience or if they do, they take the oppurtunity to pay less, so it becomes a catch 22.

And Carl i seriously can't see any one offering services for free in the sand pit, so i think that your comments are tottaly out of context, sorry.

Jack i wish you all the best in the future and that you have a sucessful career.

Regards

[tazape]

I dont think that it is a problem to work a trial shift, a few industries require a trial shift and they (the employers) do not go out and start thinking that they will then get newbies to work shifts for free all the time, Not only would the people cotton on eventually and probably start all kinds of litigation issues.
But I am sure more than a few recruiters know how it feels to be on the starting rung of a career wihtin the industry, sure there may be a couple out there who may well rip the arse out of the op to get a job done for free, but as previously stated so long as the op involved has his head screwed on and agrees to one day only for an assessment and knows when to say no and not agree to a weeks job or more.
However i do see shakespeares point about payscales that might be affected (and this is a concern) but this is probably due to ops finding it hard to get on that first rung and agreeing to a complete job for less than the average as we have seen before in the CP and other sec markets.

[wildorno]

Hi every one,
I’ve read some very interesting points here, for me I’m not in any position to really comment due to the fact that I’m not in the security (CP) business, I am however looking at changing my career and embarking on something that I think will change my life, i.e. doing CP.

At the moment I’m self employed as a business process consultant and software programmer in supply chain and manufacturing industries, I work at quite a high level looking at re-organising supply chains to reduce cost and improve productivity along with developing the software to achieve the desired goals of the business.

This is a far cry from where I want to be, I am ex army, infantry, the last year of my time was in recce, so I have natural interest in CP work and I have been out of the army for 10 years. There are a couple of points which are relevant to CP/security and the above posts in relation to doing work for free.

I totally understand the need to get some experience, but you can’t do that free like other posts have stated, working for free can or will cause an issue for future employment, I know that if had the same approach doing what I do now when I first started self employed, quoting such work as free for experience would not provide me with edge or do me any favours in getting work.

So here are the similarities to been self employed in normal civie jobs to doing CP/security type work, firstly networking is key to getting work, take your first job maybe at a cheap rate but not free to develop your experience and network, secondly do a good job and your network will recommend you too other businesses and provide good references.

The above 2 factors are critical to what I currently do, I do not advertise, I worked for 8 years in blue chip firms working with various guys, consultants etc. I got the experience and developed my network whilst I was full time and my network provides good references. But I would never do free work!

I know my background is totally different to CP work but the ethics of been self employed and networking are still the same.

For me I’m spending time now researching CP/PSD/security work to determine what I need to does far as training, qualifications and determine if I’m still suitable to do this type of work hence been on this site and getting some valuable advice from people here.

Hope this helps.

Kind Regards

Rob