initial training complete, very pleased with the result

[jackdiamonte]

Just finished my course with iss training 5 day foot and mobile, well thats really opened my eyes and helped me decide that this is definitely the direction of career I wish to follow.
The course itself was well worth the money, 2 cracking, approachable and knowledgable instructors helped me gain the skills that I planned to acquire loads of participation from the instructors, they were really hands on, guiding all the way to help all the group achieve the qualification.
It was an extra bonus to me, as I got loads of driving/follow tips and instruction from one of the trainers that I didn't expect to get.
I cant say that its the best training availible, but thats only because I havent tried anyone else, Im sure there are some good companies out there , but these guys really set the standard high and would take some beating. Other people on my course had paid good money to another company but they felt that it was not a very good course and nowhere near these guys.
So if you are thinking of doing a course check iss out and you wont be wasting your time or money

My next move is to offer my time free to any surv teams or companies that are short of bodies in my area for a while to get some more experience. Not underselling myself but it works both ways.


Good luck regards Jack D

regards Jack D

[morrigan]

Jack..... you have done yourself absolutely no harm in training with Peter and the guys at ISS. This is an extremely well thought of and highly valued trainer.

You are to be applauded for your attitude and sensible approach to finding work by offering yourself to companies as you say........ im sure its not necessary to say this but just make sure you are not taken advantage of. Set out with these companies a time frame during which they are assessing you with a view to employment and establish up front what the criteria that you should meet are. That way they are aware that you have a specific reason for offering your services pro-bono and have no illusions about when that job is offered or not.

Good luck and keep us informed about your experience with this approach....it will be interesting to hear the reaction from companies and see what the end result is.

Regards

Morrigan

[psdtraining]

Jack, Congrats........ great attitude shown, so I re-iterate above comments.
AB

[shakespeare]

Originally Posted by jackdiamonte

Just finished my course with iss training 5 day foot and mobile, well thats really opened my eyes and helped me decide that this is definitely the direction of career I wish to follow.
The course itself was well worth the money, 2 cracking, approachable and knowledgable instructors helped me gain the skills that I planned to acquire loads of participation from the instructors, they were really hands on, guiding all the way to help all the group achieve the qualification.
It was an extra bonus to me, as I got loads of driving/follow tips and instruction from one of the trainers that I didn't expect to get.
I cant say that its the best training availible, but thats only because I havent tried anyone else, Im sure there are some good companies out there , but these guys really set the standard high and would take some beating. Other people on my course had paid good money to another company but they felt that it was not a very good course and nowhere near these guys.
So if you are thinking of doing a course check iss out and you wont be wasting your time or money

My next move is to offer my time free to any surv teams or companies that are short of bodies in my area for a while to get some more experience. Not underselling myself but it works both ways.


Good luck regards Jack D

regards Jack D

Jack, well done on the ISS course. They have a good reputation.

Please do not "offer to work for free". This upsets the market and drives down wages.

Two things:

Firstly, If you have the right background and attitude, life experience and correct training, you should find PAID work.

Secondly: If you offer to "Work for free", you are helping to lower wages across the industry. This has already happened on the CP side due to the above. You are just shooting yourself in the foot in the long run. If an employer discovers that you worked for free, you will not get a job in future. This is due to the fact that you may "card the client" and is too much of a risk to their business, as you could undercut, offer your services directly and use other "work for free, but get experience types". If a team member on your team discovers that you work for free, I fear they wouldn't take it very well, as people such as yourself are seen to be threatening their livelihoods.

I wish you all the best in your quest for employment, you have invested in yourself, both in time and money, and a company that makes a profit from your work should not expect you to work for free.

Regards

Shakespeare

[jackdiamonte]

Hi , maybe I should expand on the offer to avoid confusion or upset, I am willing to offer my time for free, LIMITED, as a taster of myself and the skills I can offer, this is along the lines that morrigan has suggested,("I'm sure its not necessary to say this but just make sure you are not taken advantage of. Set out with these companies a time frame during which they are assessing you with a view to employment and establish up front what the criteria that you should meet are. That way they are aware that you have a specific reason for offering your services pro-bono and have no illusions about when that job is offered or not").
probably could have worded it better in my original posting , but this offer is to be with a view to paid employment if a future employer feels I meet the mark and hopefully surpass it. I was in a price war where a competitor had head hunted my sales manager and I am fully aware of the impact on industry and extra work I had to do to counter this move and it is not something that I would ever initiate intentionally anyway.
But this has shown that the forum is an excellent tool and all your opinions are valued. Points taken and noted. or Roger that. I hope this puts your mind to rest.

[shakespeare]

Originally Posted by jackdiamonte

Hi , maybe I should expand on the offer to avoid confusion or upset, I am willing to offer my time for free, LIMITED, as a taster of myself and the skills I can offer, this is along the lines that morrigan has suggested,("I'm sure its not necessary to say this but just make sure you are not taken advantage of. Set out with these companies a time frame during which they are assessing you with a view to employment and establish up front what the criteria that you should meet are. That way they are aware that you have a specific reason for offering your services pro-bono and have no illusions about when that job is offered or not").
probably could have worded it better in my original posting , but this offer is to be with a view to paid employment if a future employer feels I meet the mark and hopefully surpass it. I was in a price war where a competitor had head hunted my sales manager and I am fully aware of the impact on industry and extra work I had to do to counter this move and it is not something that I would ever initiate intentionally anyway.
But this has shown that the forum is an excellent tool and all your opinions are valued. Points taken and noted. or Roger that. I hope this puts your mind to rest.

DO NOT WORK FOR FREE, OR FOR A DAILY RATE LESS THAN ANYONE ELSE. FULL STOP.

I understand why you think this may work, but to offer to work for free, with the possibilty of a full time paid position with said company, will not work in your favour. You will be used and then thrown to one side. THEN the company will think "Great!", lets just use newbies for free and still invoice the client. After a while, as soon as the "free" newbie starts to approach said employer's timeframe agreed for a full time paid position.....opps....you're gone and another "free" newbie takes your place. Having something verbally agreed is not sufficent. Having an agreement in writting, well that is just not going to happen. If it does, it would still offer you no protection as it would certainly be written in their favour.

If you insist on approaching companies and offering a trail "unpaid" period, then I wish you complete failure and removal from the market.

[jackdiamonte]

hi looks like I have opened a can of worms here, Come on guys n gals lets get a general concensus on this, must be a good initial post, if I am wrong then at least this will broach and save more newbies from making the same mistake again. But it is a very important point that is being made by shakespeare and I can understand where they are coming from. Struck off before you start being a little harsh though.
Off to do a recce of adsa for sunday lunch items now, I hope to find some good feedback later today.
Pleased I have a thick skin though, comments like that could seriously turn someone of a weaker standing.
Regards Jack D

What do you think Pete?

[Carl Dowd]

Ok Jack...some discussion and debate from a different perspective...

By the way my thanks to you was in fact for the write up, not the last passage of your post...

I don't think that you have opened a can of worms here mate...beacuse work experience has been around for donkey's, its just that I am not quite certain that this industry is the right place to apply that logic.

All very commendable though in the right industry and circumstances.

I feel that the issue raises questions for contractual Law here and in particular employment Law and employment rights..the reason?

Well... once you offer a service or your persoanl services for nothing you automatically categorise yourself as a 'Voluntary Worker' thereby, you may inadvertantly diminish certain rights and company benefits, indluding I would suggest, Insurance?

Now I am not making any judgments here because with only a couple of years left in this industry I don't do judgments.

However, I would also be interested to now what would happen to all the Ex-Gurkhas who work for British companies in Iraq and Afghanistan if? Ex-pats all start to offer their services for nothing?

I have had the privilege to lead and work with many of these gentlemen like my Father before me and having knowledge of their loyalty, I feel that it would trouble me somewhat to think that they could lose their positions in these companies to 'Voluntary' Ex-pats.

They are already paid a lot less than Brits and others of course...


Regards,

Carl Dowd

[Bbutler08]

Hi.

I completely understand what you are saying about doing work for nothing other than experience but how do new people get ther foot in the door in this industry?

The reason I ask is because I am a woman with no other experienceother than martial arts ( and my training is still on-going) and I really want to suceed as a CPO but need and want to know what I can do to make myself more employable and desirable to employers.

Thanks

[Carl Dowd]

Dear Bbutler